New Google Groups format

I use Google Groups to read RAS. I know there are other ways to reach it, but this has been my preferred method. I don't want to install new software or to have group messages appear within my email.

Now Google has forced upon me their new, dumbed down, look and feel of Groups. It's been in "beta" for months, I've tried it out and sent them my feedback but of course they ignored what I told them. Now, for example, I can no longer see how many NEW messages there are in a thread before I open it..

But the worst of it is: I can't reply privately to the author of a message. The "reply to author" entry appears in the 3-dot menu, but is grayed out, and if I hover over it it says I am not authorized to send messages. But I could do that in the old format, and I can now post messages to the whole group. Blech. Does anybody know of a workaround?

Moshe Braner wrote on 11/12/2020 8:19 PM:
I use Google Groups to read RAS. I know there are other ways to reach it, but this has been my preferred method. I don't want to install new software or to have group messages appear within my email.

Now Google has forced upon me their new, dumbed down, look and feel of Groups. It's been in "beta" for months, I've tried it out and sent them my feedback but of course they ignored what I told them. Now, for example, I can no longer see how many NEW messages there are in a thread before I open it..

But the worst of it is: I can't reply privately to the author of a message. The "reply to author" entry appears in the 3-dot menu, but is grayed out, and if I hover over it it says I am not authorized to send messages. But I could do that in the old format, and I can now post messages to the whole group. Blech. Does anybody know of a workaround?

I use nntp.aioe.org to read RAS, using my email program. The messages appear like emails, but
in a separate account for nntp.aioe.org. It's the original way people got newsgroups, before
Google came along. No changes in it, and I can reply privately, "kill" threads, etc., using the
newsgroup functionality built into my email app (a sibling to Thunderbird).

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On 11/12/20 9:19 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
I use Google Groups to read RAS. I know there are other ways to reach it, but this has been my preferred method. I don't want to install new software or to have group messages appear within my email.

Now Google has forced upon me their new, dumbed down, look and feel of Groups. It's been in "beta" for months, I've tried it out and sent them my feedback but of course they ignored what I told them. Now, for example, I can no longer see how many NEW messages there are in a thread before I open it.

But the worst of it is: I can't reply privately to the author of a message. The "reply to author" entry appears in the 3-dot menu, but is grayed out, and if I hover over it it says I am not authorized to send messages. But I could do that in the old format, and I can now post messages to the whole group. Blech. Does anybody know of a workaround?


We discussed exactly this maybe six months ago. I use Thunderbird,
which doesn't require new software to be installed, and Usenet messages
are kept segregated from email. Plus it has nice filtering capability
to take out flame-baiters or topics of no interest. It doesn't obscure
email address of posters, so no problem at all doing personal replies.

On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 22:00:33 -0700, kinsell wrote:

We discussed exactly this maybe six months ago. I use Thunderbird,
which doesn't require new software to be installed, and Usenet messages
are kept segregated from email. Plus it has nice filtering capability
to take out flame-baiters or topics of no interest. It doesn't obscure
email address of posters, so no problem at all doing personal replies.

When I was a Windows user, the best newsreader I found was Forte Agent -
its not free but does have a free trial period. The only reason I'm not
using it now is that I no longer use Windows: if Forte released a Linux
version I'd be using it.

I'm currently using Pan, which is free but no longer, apparently,
maintained, which is annoying, and have also used Thunderbird.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

I have the same reaction, Moshe. I kept switching back to Classic Google Groups and providing detailed feedback as to why the "improved" interface was less functional in almost every way (the ONLY improvement I can see is that the posts in a thread are no longer paginated, but since they open up at the top of a thread without regard to which posts have been read, I have to scroll all the way down to see the unread ones--an extra step). But now I can't seem to switch back. I don't want to go use another interface (I've tried several) but I may have to. The way my PC display is configured, even replying to a post can be more difficult, although some of the more bizarre behavior seems to be fixed this morning.

I've worked in IT for over 20 years and have seen this many times. Young UX/UI designers want to "improve" the user experience and show off their design chops so they add white space, shrink fonts, introduce arcane icons with no text or rollovers, hide menus and other navigation elements, "declutter", and do other things to make the page look cleaner and sexier but make it harder to use. At a minimum, it becomes a learned interface, less intuitive than before. At worst (as is true here), it's less functional, more awkward to use, provides less information, adds clicks, etc. The most annoying strategy is when it's intentional, e.g., Snapchat, where users take pride in knowing the secrets of how to use the app to which only their friends and other cognoscenti are privy.

On rare occasions, I've seen Google scramble to back down. Years ago they eliminated the scroll bar and, separately, the Google Advanced Search page (which had been my home page for years). In both cases, outcry from thousands of users forced them to retreat (although with the scroll bar, because they had already deployed the code--with other changes--it took them a while to add back the functionality they had removed because they had to go through the same release process as they would for a change). But those are exceptions. I don't even know what their strategy is for Google Groups to know whether forcing people off the site who ONLY read one or two Usenet groups is what they want.

Despite the cluelessness of many young designers (who are sometimes more concerned with launching cool new designs that they can add to their portfolios than they are with designing user-friendly pages), the folks at Google aren't stupid. They're just arrogant. In this case, they've ignored the feedback so I suspect I'll do what I usually do when a company insists that I do business their way or no way and say goodbye.

Chip Bearden
JB

On 11/12/20 9:19 PM, Moshe Braner wrote:
I use Google Groups to read RAS. I know there are other ways to reach it, but this has been my preferred method. I don't want to install new software or to have group messages appear within my email.

Now Google has forced upon me their new, dumbed down, look and feel of Groups. It's been in "beta" for months, I've tried it out and sent them my feedback but of course they ignored what I told them. Now, for example, I can no longer see how many NEW messages there are in a thread before I open it.

But the worst of it is: I can't reply privately to the author of a message. The "reply to author" entry appears in the 3-dot menu, but is grayed out, and if I hover over it it says I am not authorized to send messages. But I could do that in the old format, and I can now post messages to the whole group. Blech. Does anybody know of a workaround?


As I described previously, I use Thunderbird, my email client. But it
is not as you suggest above with RAS postings interspersed with emails.
Instead it looks something like this:


Inbox (5)
Drafts
Sent
Junk
Trash
Soaring Newsgroup
r.a.soaring (9)

Off to the right is a list of the subject lines. Clicking on any one
(email or RAS topic) displays the message and marks it as read.

Oh, and I can reply directly to you or the newsgroup or, as I did with
that Crazy Canadian, mark his rants to be deleted without my seeing
them. Maybe I should do that with the Apology thread, but it's become
an amusement long past its useful life.

I know this is not right for everyone but it works very well for me.

Cheers,
Dan

--
Dan
5J

On 11/13/20 7:05 AM, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Thu, 12 Nov 2020 22:00:33 -0700, kinsell wrote:

We discussed exactly this maybe six months ago. I use Thunderbird,
which doesn't require new software to be installed, and Usenet messages
are kept segregated from email. Plus it has nice filtering capability
to take out flame-baiters or topics of no interest. It doesn't obscure
email address of posters, so no problem at all doing personal replies.

When I was a Windows user, the best newsreader I found was Forte Agent -
its not free but does have a free trial period. The only reason I'm not
using it now is that I no longer use Windows: if Forte released a Linux
version I'd be using it.

I'm currently using Pan, which is free but no longer, apparently,
maintained, which is annoying, and have also used Thunderbird.



I just trashed Windows forever about two weeks ago. Using and loving
Ubuntu now. But I was able to keep Thunderbird when I switched (do some
research on how before doing this). I kept Chrome for about 3 days
before switching to Brave as a browser (thanks 5Z!)

--
Dan
5J

On 11/13/20 7:47 AM, Chip Bearden wrote:
since they open up at the top of a thread without regard to which posts have been read, I have to scroll all the way down to see the unread ones--an extra step

Beating my dead horse now... In Thunderbird a simple View - Threads -
Unread fixes that problem. I only see what I haven't seen before. If I
want to see all of them, it's: View - Threads - All

Simple

--
Dan
5J

On Fri, 13 Nov 2020 09:48:52 -0700, Dan Marotta wrote:

I just trashed Windows forever about two weeks ago. Using and loving
Ubuntu now. But I was able to keep Thunderbird when I switched (do some
research on how before doing this). I kept Chrome for about 3 days
before switching to Brave as a browser (thanks 5Z!)

Good move!

I used Firefox for years, but switched to Brave about a year ago.


--
--
Martin | martin at
Gregorie | gregorie dot org

On 11/13/20 7:47 AM, Chip Bearden wrote:

Despite the cluelessness of many young designers (who are sometimes more concerned with launching cool new designs that they can add to their portfolios than they are with designing user-friendly pages), the folks at Google aren't stupid. They're just arrogant. In this case, they've ignored the feedback so I suspect I'll do what I usually do when a company insists that I do business their way or no way and say goodbye.


Google makes uncounted billions by collecting and selling personal data
of users of their 'free' software. Listening to feedback isn't of
particular interest to them. They make so much they can burn billions
on Loon Balloons and electric kites and not even miss it.

It's always funny when people say they won't have a FB account due to
privacy issues, then go all in with Google.