solo with Aspergers

On Tuesday, 8 December 2020 at 17:55:48 UTC, C-FFKQ (42) wrote:
... It all depends on the person.

Well said!
J.

On Tuesday, December 8, 2020 at 1:08:39 PM UTC-5, wrote:
On Tuesday, 8 December 2020 at 17:55:48 UTC, C-FFKQ (42) wrote:
... It all depends on the person.

Well said!
J.


I thank you all for your wisdom

Originally Posted by

On Sunday, 6 December 2020 at 20:32:18 UTC, Phoenix wrote:
Are there any CFI-Gs who have taught prospective pilots with Aspergers? I'd like to hear what their challenges are / were.
I'm sure that (in 38 years of active instructing in gliders) I have taught many pupils with varying degrees of Asperger's, without any difficulties over the technical aspects ("Can they do it both safely and reliably?"). But all pupils vary greatly in many ways, from manual dexterity to personal interaction!

You can find online definitions for Asperger's Syndrome, as well as the lengthy screeds! The one which I found clearest is
"An autistic disorder most notable for sometimes great discrepancy between intellectual and social ability."

In my own words:
Difficulty with understanding how to interact socially, especially with 'reading' other peoples' feelings and intentions, and with avoiding causing offence by saying things which, though true, can be seen as rather harsh.
(Note that it's important not to equate social clumsiness with lack of intelligence in non-emotional matters.)

About 12 years ago (aged 60) I came to the realisation that I am an Asperger's case myself. I'm fairly sure that no-one that I know or have dealings with would have suspected it. All would see me has a very able and successful man, but a bit 'wooden' socially: the result of having to think hard about social interaction, which most people find instinctive.
And I think I can fairly claim to be a very successful software engineer and glider pilot, and a well-received instructor. But of course "I would say that, wouldn't I?" (:^)
J.

Self diagnosis can frequently be problematic. The fact that you are a successful software engineer leads me to believe you may be right in your assessment.

Walt Connelly
Former tow pilot
Now happy helicopter pilot.

Originally Posted by Jim Kellett

On Sunday, December 6, 2020 at 3:32:18 PM UTC-5, Phoenix wrote:
Are there any CFI-Gs who have taught prospective pilots with Aspergers? I'd like to hear what their challenges are / were.

Aspberger's per se is no longer recognized as a specific syndrome in the spectrum of autism. We had a high functioning autistic student whose personality sucked, but he eventually could safely fly. And I was surprised to learn that there are autistic airline pilots, and very good ones - apparently one aspect of the syndrome is the intense intention to detail works well in some high functioning autistic persons in the cockpit!

Not infrequently Aspies feel the personalities of many "neurotypicals" suck, especially the petulant, truculent types. While their social skills might not be up to the standards of many you will rarely find the Aspie to be the trouble maker. They generally are the more "normal" types.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.

Originally Posted by Phoenix

On Monday, December 7, 2020 at 9:15:48 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Sunday, 6 December 2020 at 20:32:18 UTC, Phoenix wrote:
Are there any CFI-Gs who have taught prospective pilots with Aspergers? I'd like to hear what their challenges are / were.
I'm sure that (in 38 years of active instructing in gliders) I have taught many pupils with varying degrees of Asperger's, without any difficulties over the technical aspects ("Can they do it both safely and reliably?"). But all pupils vary greatly in many ways, from manual dexterity to personal interaction!

You can find online definitions for Asperger's Syndrome, as well as the lengthy screeds! The one which I found clearest is
"An autistic disorder most notable for sometimes great discrepancy between intellectual and social ability."

In my own words:
Difficulty with understanding how to interact socially, especially with 'reading' other peoples' feelings and intentions, and with avoiding causing offence by saying things which, though true, can be seen as rather harsh.
(Note that it's important not to equate social clumsiness with lack of intelligence in non-emotional matters.)

About 12 years ago (aged 60) I came to the realisation that I am an Asperger's case myself. I'm fairly sure that no-one that I know or have dealings with would have suspected it. All would see me has a very able and successful man, but a bit 'wooden' socially: the result of having to think hard about social interaction, which most people find instinctive.
And I think I can fairly claim to be a very successful software engineer and glider pilot, and a well-received instructor. But of course "I would say that, wouldn't I?" (:^)
J.
Thank you for your reply. I have a 14 year old glider student who has Asperger's. You wouldn't notice he had "issues" except that he has difficulty keeping eye contact with those with whom he was talking. Concerns I had / have a
1) Comprehension of glider training texts
1) Physical ability to manipulate three axis control
3) Ability to put aviation knowledge into actual practice
4) Ability to multi task - especially under pressure

As it turns out, he is flying gliders exceptionally well, performing above the norm. His comprehension of the training tests is now of no concern. His actual flying is butter smooth. My concern is...... should I solo him (when ready) or require him to only fly with a qualified ride pilot?

So forget for a moment your knowledge of his place on the spectrum. Would you otherwise solo him? It would appear that implied bias is taking hold here.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot

Originally Posted by C-FFKQ (42)

First off, I have Asperger's. Secondly, I'm a long-time glider pilot and instructor. I (and my club) have trained several student pilots with Autism Spectrum Disorder over the years, some successfully, some not.

The main area I see as problematic is "Executive Function". This is partly the ability to problem-solve, to create a series of logical steps to reach a desired conclusion. "What if" situations can be very difficult, especially as the stress levels increase. Keeping control of emotions is also part of Executive Function, so not getting into a panic situation as the stress rises can be a challenge.

One conversation I had with a parent when I wouldn't send a kid solo... "How well does he drive the car?" "Oh, we don't trust him to drive the car!" "Then why do you expect me to turn him loose in an airplane?" He was technically a decent student pilot -- when things were going well -- but he could get frustrated and "shut down" when things went awry (Like being asked to divert to a different runway, even with plenty of safety margin).

Just remember, "If you've met one person with autism, you've met ONE person with autism" (Dr. Steven Shore). Find out the weaknesses and work on them.. Find out the strengths and use those to offset the weaknesses. It might take longer to get to solo, the person may never solo, the person may get through the training without problems. It all depends on the person.

- John

My experience has been that it is never a good thing to share your place on the spectrum with others, the bias and prejudice that can occur can be problematic. Most Asperger's are highly intelligent and can learn that which is necessary to fly quite safely. As is always the case there are exceptions to the rule, individual evaluation is critical. Although not an instructor myself I have seen many students in both power and gliders who should not be flying and many if not most are among the "Neurotypical' crowd.

Walt Connelly
Former Tow Pilot
Now Happy Helicopter Pilot.