Purists are from Pluto, Motorgliderists are from Mars - #2

wrote on 4/14/2021 5:17 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 12:08:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Wallace Berry wrote on 4/13/2021 6:32 PM:
The risk was the high chance of injury or death if the lift did not pan out . The pure gliders had no "Plan B" if they went into the hills and did not find lift. The motorgliders had a "Plan B". Yes, Plan B had risk, but less risk of landing out than the pure gliders. Isn't that a big part of the attraction of motorgliders?
What contest was this, and when? Why are you certain the motorglider pilots were actually
risking a potentially fatal crash if their motor didn't start? Or, could it have been just a
very lengthy retrieve that they avoided if the motor did start?

Crashing if the motor does not start is not part any "plan" of the motorglider pilots I know.
Once again, the attraction of self-launching motorgliders is launching when and where the pilot
chooses, and the greater certainty of getting home if the weather is misjudged.

If the motorglider offers a real competitive advantage, the top ten pilots in National contests
should be flying almost entirely motorgliders. I'm not aware of any study showing that, but
it'd be an interesting one to do, and shouldn't take much time or effort.

Another interesting exercise would be to ask each of the top ten pilots in several contests why
are/aren't they flying a motorglider.
--
Eric, you are making progress, yes, the sustainer and the self start both compensate for misjudgment, I would consider that a pretty big advantage over a purist. The purist cannot compensate for that type of mistake, we must deal with the situation at hand and at times suffer the consequences. The purist flies with a different mindset, reality sets in real quick and making decisions on should or should not has a different price to pay.

But, you are not making progress. :^)

No one disputes the convenience of having a motor to avoid landing out - that's the #2 reason
for getting a motorglider, as the motorglider pilots here (including me) have repeatedly
pointed out. What I was discussing above is the claim that it is a "huge" or "pretty big"
advantage for contest flying.

What I'm trying to understand is your reasons for making an issue of the motor, when you don't
fly contests (AFAIK). The US contest rules don't distinguish between them, the SSA doesn't have
separate record classes for them, so why do you manufacture division, when most of us don't
care, and are just happy to see someone show up at the airport and fly with us? Are you
trolling, lonely, uninformed, or ?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Take a look back at the original post that started this whole mess of a string (two actually).... It regarded “testosterone levels� in “purists� vs motorized glider pilots. Zero useful or meaningful information or questions there. Obvious trolling....

I’m with Guy, time to wrap up this (and the other) post. And time to stop responding to and start ignoring trolling expeditions in general.

Signed,
Jim J6
A motorglider pilot who flys his ‘26 like a glider and considers every engine start a “pleasant surprise�



On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 8:29:42 AM UTC-5, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 4/14/2021 5:17 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 12:08:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Wallace Berry wrote on 4/13/2021 6:32 PM:
The risk was the high chance of injury or death if the lift did not pan out . The pure gliders had no "Plan B" if they went into the hills and did not find lift. The motorgliders had a "Plan B". Yes, Plan B had risk, but less risk of landing out than the pure gliders. Isn't that a big part of the attraction of motorgliders?
What contest was this, and when? Why are you certain the motorglider pilots were actually
risking a potentially fatal crash if their motor didn't start? Or, could it have been just a
very lengthy retrieve that they avoided if the motor did start?

Crashing if the motor does not start is not part any "plan" of the motorglider pilots I know.
Once again, the attraction of self-launching motorgliders is launching when and where the pilot
chooses, and the greater certainty of getting home if the weather is misjudged.

If the motorglider offers a real competitive advantage, the top ten pilots in National contests
should be flying almost entirely motorgliders. I'm not aware of any study showing that, but
it'd be an interesting one to do, and shouldn't take much time or effort.

Another interesting exercise would be to ask each of the top ten pilots in several contests why
are/aren't they flying a motorglider.
--
Eric, you are making progress, yes, the sustainer and the self start both compensate for misjudgment, I would consider that a pretty big advantage over a purist. The purist cannot compensate for that type of mistake, we must deal with the situation at hand and at times suffer the consequences. The purist flies with a different mindset, reality sets in real quick and making decisions on should or should not has a different price to pay.
But, you are not making progress. :^)

No one disputes the convenience of having a motor to avoid landing out - that's the #2 reason
for getting a motorglider, as the motorglider pilots here (including me) have repeatedly
pointed out. What I was discussing above is the claim that it is a "huge" or "pretty big"
advantage for contest flying.

What I'm trying to understand is your reasons for making an issue of the motor, when you don't
fly contests (AFAIK). The US contest rules don't distinguish between them, the SSA doesn't have
separate record classes for them, so why do you manufacture division, when most of us don't
care, and are just happy to see someone show up at the airport and fly with us? Are you
trolling, lonely, uninformed, or ?


--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 9:29:42 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 4/14/2021 5:17 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 12:08:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Wallace Berry wrote on 4/13/2021 6:32 PM:
The risk was the high chance of injury or death if the lift did not pan out . The pure gliders had no "Plan B" if they went into the hills and did not find lift. The motorgliders had a "Plan B". Yes, Plan B had risk, but less risk of landing out than the pure gliders. Isn't that a big part of the attraction of motorgliders?
What contest was this, and when? Why are you certain the motorglider pilots were actually
risking a potentially fatal crash if their motor didn't start? Or, could it have been just a
very lengthy retrieve that they avoided if the motor did start?

Crashing if the motor does not start is not part any "plan" of the motorglider pilots I know.
Once again, the attraction of self-launching motorgliders is launching when and where the pilot
chooses, and the greater certainty of getting home if the weather is misjudged.

If the motorglider offers a real competitive advantage, the top ten pilots in National contests
should be flying almost entirely motorgliders. I'm not aware of any study showing that, but
it'd be an interesting one to do, and shouldn't take much time or effort.

Another interesting exercise would be to ask each of the top ten pilots in several contests why
are/aren't they flying a motorglider.
--
Eric, you are making progress, yes, the sustainer and the self start both compensate for misjudgment, I would consider that a pretty big advantage over a purist. The purist cannot compensate for that type of mistake, we must deal with the situation at hand and at times suffer the consequences. The purist flies with a different mindset, reality sets in real quick and making decisions on should or should not has a different price to pay.
But, you are not making progress. :^)

No one disputes the convenience of having a motor to avoid landing out - that's the #2 reason
for getting a motorglider, as the motorglider pilots here (including me) have repeatedly
pointed out. What I was discussing above is the claim that it is a "huge" or "pretty big"
advantage for contest flying.

What I'm trying to understand is your reasons for making an issue of the motor, when you don't
fly contests (AFAIK). The US contest rules don't distinguish between them, the SSA doesn't have
separate record classes for them, so why do you manufacture division, when most of us don't
care, and are just happy to see someone show up at the airport and fly with us? Are you
trolling, lonely, uninformed, or ?

What I have pointed out is that there is a completely different mindset between the purist and the motorglider pilot, it kind of baffles me that so many MGP's are in disagreement with that theory. Very early on I stated that there should be consideration changes between MG vs the purist in OLC scoring. Not long ago a MGP flew with us and had engine problems, unfortunately or fortunately I was there to provide a tow. After the flight the MPG told me that they had to fly with a different mindset, I found that to be a very honest statement, actually I was impressed by the performance of the self launch glider.
Now I realize that you and J6 have real issues with my opinion, I hope that I have somewhat made you more cognizant of the mindset difference. When you make that trip to Florida please come to Vero Beach and fly with us old guys. Old Bob

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Again, you *assume* there is a "completely different mindset" between motor and non-motorglider pilots. Your assumption is incorrect for the vast majority of motorglider pilots. We know this because we have flown - and some continue to fly - non-motorgliders. The difference in mindset is *only* in considering the inconvenience of a retrieve, *not* in the safety of an out landing which might occur with either. You do not know this because you have never flown motorgliders. Does it affect OLC scores? Probably, because a purist may shy away from a direction or distance that involves a greater chance of a retrieve, and they don't want the inconvenience. If either pilot flies low over unlandable terrain, the result for either - eventually - will be the same. The purist can mitigate the inconvenience by hiring a crew for the possible retrieve, and as I have pointed out in the past this is more cost effective than buying a motorglider, with the same result. But rather than paying the money (for either the motor or the crew) a few purists simply whinge on about it. You made your choice to save money and buy a motorless glider and not have a crew for retrieves. Live with it. In real competition (as distinct from OLC) a motorglider is at a disadvantage.

On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 11:35:42 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 9:29:42 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 4/14/2021 5:17 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 12:08:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Wallace Berry wrote on 4/13/2021 6:32 PM:
The risk was the high chance of injury or death if the lift did not pan out . The pure gliders had no "Plan B" if they went into the hills and did not find lift. The motorgliders had a "Plan B". Yes, Plan B had risk, but less risk of landing out than the pure gliders. Isn't that a big part of the attraction of motorgliders?
What contest was this, and when? Why are you certain the motorglider pilots were actually
risking a potentially fatal crash if their motor didn't start? Or, could it have been just a
very lengthy retrieve that they avoided if the motor did start?

Crashing if the motor does not start is not part any "plan" of the motorglider pilots I know.
Once again, the attraction of self-launching motorgliders is launching when and where the pilot
chooses, and the greater certainty of getting home if the weather is misjudged.

If the motorglider offers a real competitive advantage, the top ten pilots in National contests
should be flying almost entirely motorgliders. I'm not aware of any study showing that, but
it'd be an interesting one to do, and shouldn't take much time or effort.

Another interesting exercise would be to ask each of the top ten pilots in several contests why
are/aren't they flying a motorglider.
--
Eric, you are making progress, yes, the sustainer and the self start both compensate for misjudgment, I would consider that a pretty big advantage over a purist. The purist cannot compensate for that type of mistake, we must deal with the situation at hand and at times suffer the consequences. The purist flies with a different mindset, reality sets in real quick and making decisions on should or should not has a different price to pay.
But, you are not making progress. :^)

No one disputes the convenience of having a motor to avoid landing out - that's the #2 reason
for getting a motorglider, as the motorglider pilots here (including me) have repeatedly
pointed out. What I was discussing above is the claim that it is a "huge" or "pretty big"
advantage for contest flying.

What I'm trying to understand is your reasons for making an issue of the motor, when you don't
fly contests (AFAIK). The US contest rules don't distinguish between them, the SSA doesn't have
separate record classes for them, so why do you manufacture division, when most of us don't
care, and are just happy to see someone show up at the airport and fly with us? Are you
trolling, lonely, uninformed, or ?

What I have pointed out is that there is a completely different mindset between the purist and the motorglider pilot, it kind of baffles me that so many MGP's are in disagreement with that theory. Very early on I stated that there should be consideration changes between MG vs the purist in OLC scoring. Not long ago a MGP flew with us and had engine problems, unfortunately or fortunately I was there to provide a tow. After the flight the MPG told me that they had to fly with a different mindset, I found that to be a very honest statement, actually I was impressed by the performance of the self launch glider.
Now I realize that you and J6 have real issues with my opinion, I hope that I have somewhat made you more cognizant of the mindset difference. When you make that trip to Florida please come to Vero Beach and fly with us old guys. Old Bob

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

wrote on 4/14/2021 11:35 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 9:29:42 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 4/14/2021 5:17 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 12:08:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Wallace Berry wrote on 4/13/2021 6:32 PM:
The risk was the high chance of injury or death if the lift did not pan out . The pure gliders h I would consider that a pretty big advantage over a purist. The purist cannot compensate for that type of mistake, we must deal with the situation at hand and at times suffer the consequences. The purist flies with a different mindset, reality sets in real quick and making decisions on should or should not has a different price to pay.
But, you are not making progress. :^)

No one disputes the convenience of having a motor to avoid landing out - that's the #2 reason
for getting a motorglider, as the motorglider pilots here (including me) have repeatedly
pointed out. What I was discussing above is the claim that it is a "huge" or "pretty big"
advantage for contest flying.

What I'm trying to understand is your reasons for making an issue of the motor, when you don't
fly contests (AFAIK). The US contest rules don't distinguish between them, the SSA doesn't have
separate record classes for them, so why do you manufacture division, when most of us don't
care, and are just happy to see someone show up at the airport and fly with us? Are you
trolling, lonely, uninformed, or ?

What I have pointed out is that there is a completely different mindset between the purist and the motorglider pilot, it kind of baffles me that so many MGP's are in disagreement with that theory. Very early on I stated that there should be consideration changes between MG vs the purist in OLC scoring. Not long ago a MGP flew with us and had engine problems, unfortunately or fortunately I was there to provide a tow. After the flight the MPG told me that they had to fly with a different mindset, I found that to be a very honest statement, actually I was impressed by the performance of the self launch glider.
Now I realize that you and J6 have real issues with my opinion, I hope that I have somewhat made you more cognizant of the mindset difference. When you make that trip to Florida please come to Vero Beach and fly with us old guys. Old Bob


A pilot's "mindset" differs widely, depending the personal circumstances; eg, between a 1-26
pilot and a Nimbus 4 pilot, between me in my Phoenix and me in my ASH26E; between the pilot
with an eager crew and the pilot that's crewless (and not sure anyone will come get him);
between the pilot that thinks a $200 towplane retrieve is a super bargain and the pilot that
can hardly afford a 1500' tow. What's disturbing to a lot of us is you won't recognize all the
variety in soaring circumstances, and focus unnecessarily, and often rudely, on a single
factor: the motor. "I hope that I have somewhat made you more cognizant of the mindset
difference", that the mindset differences within a group (motored or towed) can vary more than
the differences between the two groups.

I can't explain it any better, so I'm done. If you have questions about operating a motorglider
safely and enjoyably, please read my Guide (link below). If you still have questions, email me
at

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 3:58:20 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 4/14/2021 11:35 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 9:29:42 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 4/14/2021 5:17 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 12:08:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Wallace Berry wrote on 4/13/2021 6:32 PM:
The risk was the high chance of injury or death if the lift did not pan out . The pure gliders h I would consider that a pretty big advantage over a purist. The purist cannot compensate for that type of mistake, we must deal with the situation at hand and at times suffer the consequences. The purist flies with a different mindset, reality sets in real quick and making decisions on should or should not has a different price to pay.
But, you are not making progress. :^)

No one disputes the convenience of having a motor to avoid landing out - that's the #2 reason
for getting a motorglider, as the motorglider pilots here (including me) have repeatedly
pointed out. What I was discussing above is the claim that it is a "huge" or "pretty big"
advantage for contest flying.

What I'm trying to understand is your reasons for making an issue of the motor, when you don't
fly contests (AFAIK). The US contest rules don't distinguish between them, the SSA doesn't have
separate record classes for them, so why do you manufacture division, when most of us don't
care, and are just happy to see someone show up at the airport and fly with us? Are you
trolling, lonely, uninformed, or ?

What I have pointed out is that there is a completely different mindset between the purist and the motorglider pilot, it kind of baffles me that so many MGP's are in disagreement with that theory. Very early on I stated that there should be consideration changes between MG vs the purist in OLC scoring. Not long ago a MGP flew with us and had engine problems, unfortunately or fortunately I was there to provide a tow. After the flight the MPG told me that they had to fly with a different mindset, I found that to be a very honest statement, actually I was impressed by the performance of the self launch glider.
Now I realize that you and J6 have real issues with my opinion, I hope that I have somewhat made you more cognizant of the mindset difference. When you make that trip to Florida please come to Vero Beach and fly with us old guys. Old Bob

A pilot's "mindset" differs widely, depending the personal circumstances; eg, between a 1-26
pilot and a Nimbus 4 pilot, between me in my Phoenix and me in my ASH26E; between the pilot
with an eager crew and the pilot that's crewless (and not sure anyone will come get him);
between the pilot that thinks a $200 towplane retrieve is a super bargain and the pilot that
can hardly afford a 1500' tow. What's disturbing to a lot of us is you won't recognize all the
variety in soaring circumstances, and focus unnecessarily, and often rudely, on a single
factor: the motor. "I hope that I have somewhat made you more cognizant of the mindset
difference", that the mindset differences within a group (motored or towed) can vary more than
the differences between the two groups.

I can't explain it any better, so I'm done. If you have questions about operating a motorglider
safely and enjoyably, please read my Guide (link below). If you still have questions, email me
at
--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

Eric, I am going to miss you. Old Bob

Just to be clear. Have YOU ever owned and flown a motorglider or sustainer? Or have your opinions been formed with no personal knowledge.
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 11:35:42 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 9:29:42 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 4/14/2021 5:17 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 12:08:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Wallace Berry wrote on 4/13/2021 6:32 PM:
The risk was the high chance of injury or death if the lift did not pan out . The pure gliders had no "Plan B" if they went into the hills and did not find lift. The motorgliders had a "Plan B". Yes, Plan B had risk, but less risk of landing out than the pure gliders. Isn't that a big part of the attraction of motorgliders?
What contest was this, and when? Why are you certain the motorglider pilots were actually
risking a potentially fatal crash if their motor didn't start? Or, could it have been just a
very lengthy retrieve that they avoided if the motor did start?

Crashing if the motor does not start is not part any "plan" of the motorglider pilots I know.
Once again, the attraction of self-launching motorgliders is launching when and where the pilot
chooses, and the greater certainty of getting home if the weather is misjudged.

If the motorglider offers a real competitive advantage, the top ten pilots in National contests
should be flying almost entirely motorgliders. I'm not aware of any study showing that, but
it'd be an interesting one to do, and shouldn't take much time or effort.

Another interesting exercise would be to ask each of the top ten pilots in several contests why
are/aren't they flying a motorglider.
--
Eric, you are making progress, yes, the sustainer and the self start both compensate for misjudgment, I would consider that a pretty big advantage over a purist. The purist cannot compensate for that type of mistake, we must deal with the situation at hand and at times suffer the consequences. The purist flies with a different mindset, reality sets in real quick and making decisions on should or should not has a different price to pay.
But, you are not making progress. :^)

No one disputes the convenience of having a motor to avoid landing out - that's the #2 reason
for getting a motorglider, as the motorglider pilots here (including me) have repeatedly
pointed out. What I was discussing above is the claim that it is a "huge" or "pretty big"
advantage for contest flying.

What I'm trying to understand is your reasons for making an issue of the motor, when you don't
fly contests (AFAIK). The US contest rules don't distinguish between them, the SSA doesn't have
separate record classes for them, so why do you manufacture division, when most of us don't
care, and are just happy to see someone show up at the airport and fly with us? Are you
trolling, lonely, uninformed, or ?

What I have pointed out is that there is a completely different mindset between the purist and the motorglider pilot, it kind of baffles me that so many MGP's are in disagreement with that theory. Very early on I stated that there should be consideration changes between MG vs the purist in OLC scoring. Not long ago a MGP flew with us and had engine problems, unfortunately or fortunately I was there to provide a tow. After the flight the MPG told me that they had to fly with a different mindset, I found that to be a very honest statement, actually I was impressed by the performance of the self launch glider.
Now I realize that you and J6 have real issues with my opinion, I hope that I have somewhat made you more cognizant of the mindset difference. When you make that trip to Florida please come to Vero Beach and fly with us old guys. Old Bob

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Friday, April 16, 2021 at 9:26:58 AM UTC-4, wrote:
Just to be clear. Have YOU ever owned and flown a motorglider or sustainer? Or have your opinions been formed with no personal knowledge.
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 11:35:42 AM UTC-7, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 9:29:42 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
wrote on 4/14/2021 5:17 AM:
On Wednesday, April 14, 2021 at 12:08:52 AM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
Wallace Berry wrote on 4/13/2021 6:32 PM:
The risk was the high chance of injury or death if the lift did not pan out . The pure gliders had no "Plan B" if they went into the hills and did not find lift. The motorgliders had a "Plan B". Yes, Plan B had risk, but less risk of landing out than the pure gliders. Isn't that a big part of the attraction of motorgliders?
What contest was this, and when? Why are you certain the motorglider pilots were actually
risking a potentially fatal crash if their motor didn't start? Or, could it have been just a
very lengthy retrieve that they avoided if the motor did start?

Crashing if the motor does not start is not part any "plan" of the motorglider pilots I know.
Once again, the attraction of self-launching motorgliders is launching when and where the pilot
chooses, and the greater certainty of getting home if the weather is misjudged.

If the motorglider offers a real competitive advantage, the top ten pilots in National contests
should be flying almost entirely motorgliders. I'm not aware of any study showing that, but
it'd be an interesting one to do, and shouldn't take much time or effort.

Another interesting exercise would be to ask each of the top ten pilots in several contests why
are/aren't they flying a motorglider.
--
Eric, you are making progress, yes, the sustainer and the self start both compensate for misjudgment, I would consider that a pretty big advantage over a purist. The purist cannot compensate for that type of mistake, we must deal with the situation at hand and at times suffer the consequences. The purist flies with a different mindset, reality sets in real quick and making decisions on should or should not has a different price to pay.
But, you are not making progress. :^)

No one disputes the convenience of having a motor to avoid landing out - that's the #2 reason
for getting a motorglider, as the motorglider pilots here (including me) have repeatedly
pointed out. What I was discussing above is the claim that it is a "huge" or "pretty big"
advantage for contest flying.

What I'm trying to understand is your reasons for making an issue of the motor, when you don't
fly contests (AFAIK). The US contest rules don't distinguish between them, the SSA doesn't have
separate record classes for them, so why do you manufacture division, when most of us don't
care, and are just happy to see someone show up at the airport and fly with us? Are you
trolling, lonely, uninformed, or ?

What I have pointed out is that there is a completely different mindset between the purist and the motorglider pilot, it kind of baffles me that so many MGP's are in disagreement with that theory. Very early on I stated that there should be consideration changes between MG vs the purist in OLC scoring. Not long ago a MGP flew with us and had engine problems, unfortunately or fortunately I was there to provide a tow. After the flight the MPG told me that they had to fly with a different mindset, I found that to be a very honest statement, actually I was impressed by the performance of the self launch glider.
Now I realize that you and J6 have real issues with my opinion, I hope that I have somewhat made you more cognizant of the mindset difference. When you make that trip to Florida please come to Vero Beach and fly with us old guys. Old Bob

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to email me)
- "A Guide to Self-Launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
Jonathan, YES, I have flown a motorglider! Logged over 3K hours in excellent glass ships, flown places that even you MGP's would never go even with a motor, 1983, documented 25 miles offshore out over the Atlantic. I guess you MGP's will be shocked if I buy a self launch. Old Bob

Jonathan, YES, I have flown a motorglider! Logged over 3K hours in excellent glass ships, flown places that even you MGP's would never go even with a motor, 1983, documented 25 miles offshore out over the Atlantic. I guess you MGP's will be shocked if I buy a self launch. Old Bob

I realize this thread is trolling, but it is perpetrating a dangerous myth. Bob has made many references to the motor saving your bacon. That motor glider pilots fly without fear over unlandable terrain. And perhaps Bob, who like to brag about his daring do might fly one that way, it is unsafe to do so.

Now there is a mindset diference when flying a glider with self retrieve capability. It is not as Bob sugest no fear over "the swamp". It is reduced concern that you will inconvenience a bunch of folks to come get you at the end of the day. This is an important distinction.

As for the olc advantage of going for the distant clouds with the chance of a landout, that is true. But is foolish at best if it is not landable under those clouds.

So yes there are psychological advantages to having a good chance to avoid a retrieve but not from the unlandable pucker factor. So are there advantages to a self launch or self retrieving glider? There damn well better be to pay the upcharge for the convenience, but is it a true fear reducer? You best check yourself if you fly like it is...

"I'd rather have a motor and not need it than need a motor it and not have it."

However, I can't afford a motorglider and the associated insurance costs and maintenance expenses. But I don't approve of the "class warfare" tactics promoted by "Old Bob." Got a lot of MG friends, as well as "purists." This thread should die.