FAA Permanently Revokes Pilot's License over ADS-B

On 5/18/2021 11:00 AM, wrote:
On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 11:35:16 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
The parrot wasn't squawking ADS-B, that's for sure. I see an occasional
C-17 transmitting it, but it seems most military traffic isn't equipped
even today.
On 5/17/21 12:35 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
We only did that during certain mission profiles. Otherwise the parrot
was squawking.

Dan
5J


Become a military pilot...they will turn tracking off, when they
choose.

For obvious reasons I would think that most military traffic would not be ADS-B broadcasting. I certainly know the ones going into 2901 are NOT. There have been a couple of points here on this thread that are very interesting. One was that Ole Andy is clueless about Restricted Zone operation. The good point that Tony made was that ATC has the latest operational information on Hot or Cold for these restricted areas. Each Restricted area has an ATC zone that is responsible for that information, in our case it is Miami Center. That Center has a mission desk that receives operational status the day or afternoon prior as to the operational times for that specific RA.
For our area that information comes from MacDill AFB usually around 4pm, As Tony stated do not plan on using the NOTAM as the true determination as to whether the zone is HOT or Cold. These zones can change within a few hours notice. You can call the mission desk for that center and as in our case they are always very informative as to the operational hours. I my case I will call the Mission desk, get the current status of each area within that RA, there is usually a 4 hour window for a zone to become operational. I always check with the ATC to confirm the current status to double check the status, I do this by calling Miami ATC on the radio as I am approaching the RA. Keep in mind that these areas are multi purpose military training areas, aircraft, helicopter, artillery, and special warfare training takes place in some of these RA areas. I have has a F-18 circle me outside of the RA while in the MOA, we gave each other the thumbs up, it was great. Old Bob

I'm very disturbed by the idea that airspace NOTAMS can change after I've taken off. Why
should I or anyone waste their time looking at them on the ground, if they have to contact
ATC in the air as they approach the airspace, so they know what the airspace status is?

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 2:13:36 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 5/18/2021 11:00 AM, wrote:
On Monday, May 17, 2021 at 11:35:16 PM UTC-4, kinsell wrote:
The parrot wasn't squawking ADS-B, that's for sure. I see an occasional
C-17 transmitting it, but it seems most military traffic isn't equipped
even today.
On 5/17/21 12:35 PM, Dan Marotta wrote:
We only did that during certain mission profiles. Otherwise the parrot
was squawking.

Dan
5J


Become a military pilot...they will turn tracking off, when they
choose.

For obvious reasons I would think that most military traffic would not be ADS-B broadcasting. I certainly know the ones going into 2901 are NOT. There have been a couple of points here on this thread that are very interesting. One was that Ole Andy is clueless about Restricted Zone operation. The good point that Tony made was that ATC has the latest operational information on Hot or Cold for these restricted areas. Each Restricted area has an ATC zone that is responsible for that information, in our case it is Miami Center. That Center has a mission desk that receives operational status the day or afternoon prior as to the operational times for that specific RA.
For our area that information comes from MacDill AFB usually around 4pm, As Tony stated do not plan on using the NOTAM as the true determination as to whether the zone is HOT or Cold. These zones can change within a few hours notice. You can call the mission desk for that center and as in our case they are always very informative as to the operational hours. I my case I will call the Mission desk, get the current status of each area within that RA, there is usually a 4 hour window for a zone to become operational. I always check with the ATC to confirm the current status to double check the status, I do this by calling Miami ATC on the radio as I am approaching the RA. Keep in mind that these areas are multi purpose military training areas, aircraft, helicopter, artillery, and special warfare training takes place in some of these RA areas. I have has a F-18 circle me outside of the RA while in the MOA, we gave each other the thumbs up, it was great. Old Bob

I'm very disturbed by the idea that airspace NOTAMS can change after I've taken off. Why
should I or anyone waste their time looking at them on the ground, if they have to contact
ATC in the air as they approach the airspace, so they know what the airspace status is?

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
Amos, I would suggest that in your case it would be very prudent to check not only the NOTAM, but the active status of the RA if you plan to fly through it. I really don't think that the military gives a rats ass if you choose to ignore a NOTAM or RA, but the FAA will. A NOTAM can be issued at any time, I call and issue NOTAMS for our field on several occasions. I give the agency the X52 designation and my authority initials, they ask me what time it should commence and end along with the reason, they reply with a NOTAM identification number. Just because you want to fly does not excuse your violation. Old Bob

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 2:13:36 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:


I'm very disturbed by the idea that airspace NOTAMS can change after I've taken off. Why
should I or anyone waste their time looking at them on the ground, if they have to contact
ATC in the air as they approach the airspace, so they know what the airspace status is?

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

That seems to happen more often than one would think! Talk to the guys who fly the ridges in Central PA. When the POTUS decides to hop in a chopper and spend the weekend at Camp David, the no-fly zone around it covers a good part of the ridge(s). I am sure a NOTAM will be published but you will not know about it until you get visited by a black helicopter.
A similar thing happened a number of years ago when the POTUS was campaigning for reelection in OH. A NOTAM for a 'moving no-fly' zone was issued for the corridor between Toledo and Columbus but not even the ATC in that area knew, where the motorcade was at any moment. I inquired about it with Akon/Canton and their response was 'Well - do you see any Black Hawks circling you? No? Good - then you are not in it, yet!' We decided to pack it in for the day and fire up the grill.

Uli
'AS'

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 5:12:22 PM UTC-4, AS wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 2:13:36 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:


I'm very disturbed by the idea that airspace NOTAMS can change after I've taken off. Why
should I or anyone waste their time looking at them on the ground, if they have to contact
ATC in the air as they approach the airspace, so they know what the airspace status is?

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
That seems to happen more often than one would think! Talk to the guys who fly the ridges in Central PA. When the POTUS decides to hop in a chopper and spend the weekend at Camp David, the no-fly zone around it covers a good part of the ridge(s). I am sure a NOTAM will be published but you will not know about it until you get visited by a black helicopter.
A similar thing happened a number of years ago when the POTUS was campaigning for reelection in OH. A NOTAM for a 'moving no-fly' zone was issued for the corridor between Toledo and Columbus but not even the ATC in that area knew, where the motorcade was at any moment. I inquired about it with Akon/Canton and their response was 'Well - do you see any Black Hawks circling you? No? Good - then you are not in it, yet!' We decided to pack it in for the day and fire up the grill.

Uli
'AS'
Uli, you are absolutely correct, it happens more than you realize. It is the responsibility of the individual to know what the factors are in a VIP or RA situation. Having a great contact line with the agency is of utmost importance. When the Trumpster was in office, wish he still was, I would get an email from the Col. at Tyndall AFB advising me of the TFR for my local airport, we made sure that we knew exactly when and where the TFR was active. Yes, he did hop in the Helo and visit Lake O, the TFR followed.

On 5/18/2021 2:12 PM, AS wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 2:13:36 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:


I'm very disturbed by the idea that airspace NOTAMS can change after I've taken off. Why
should I or anyone waste their time looking at them on the ground, if they have to contact
ATC in the air as they approach the airspace, so they know what the airspace status is?

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

That seems to happen more often than one would think! Talk to the guys who fly the ridges in Central PA. When the POTUS decides to hop in a chopper and spend the weekend at Camp David, the no-fly zone around it covers a good part of the ridge(s). I am sure a NOTAM will be published but you will not know about it until you get visited by a black helicopter.
A similar thing happened a number of years ago when the POTUS was campaigning for reelection in OH. A NOTAM for a 'moving no-fly' zone was issued for the corridor between Toledo and Columbus but not even the ATC in that area knew, where the motorcade was at any moment. I inquired about it with Akon/Canton and their response was 'Well - do you see any Black Hawks circling you? No? Good - then you are not in it, yet!' We decided to pack it in for the day and fire up the grill.

I'm sure POTUS is a special problem, but it's never been an issue for me in the 30 some
years I've been checking NOTAMS (where I fly there are usually very few voters). I'm not
aware of any NOTAMS that changed while I was flying. Aside from POTUS, has this happened
to anyone, did it cause you to violate airspace, and was official action taken against you?

What are the regulations for NOTAMS; e.g., are they strictly "informational" and you
depend on them at your risk? I've always assumed they could be issued at any time, but it
was understood pilots might not know about them for at least 4 to 8 hours, and you should
have it issued no later than the day before if at all possible.

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 7:53:55 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:
On 5/18/2021 2:12 PM, AS wrote:
On Tuesday, May 18, 2021 at 2:13:36 PM UTC-4, Eric Greenwell wrote:


I'm very disturbed by the idea that airspace NOTAMS can change after I've taken off. Why
should I or anyone waste their time looking at them on the ground, if they have to contact
ATC in the air as they approach the airspace, so they know what the airspace status is?

--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1

That seems to happen more often than one would think! Talk to the guys who fly the ridges in Central PA. When the POTUS decides to hop in a chopper and spend the weekend at Camp David, the no-fly zone around it covers a good part of the ridge(s). I am sure a NOTAM will be published but you will not know about it until you get visited by a black helicopter.
A similar thing happened a number of years ago when the POTUS was campaigning for reelection in OH. A NOTAM for a 'moving no-fly' zone was issued for the corridor between Toledo and Columbus but not even the ATC in that area knew, where the motorcade was at any moment. I inquired about it with Akon/Canton and their response was 'Well - do you see any Black Hawks circling you? No? Good - then you are not in it, yet!' We decided to pack it in for the day and fire up the grill.
I'm sure POTUS is a special problem, but it's never been an issue for me in the 30 some
years I've been checking NOTAMS (where I fly there are usually very few voters). I'm not
aware of any NOTAMS that changed while I was flying. Aside from POTUS, has this happened
to anyone, did it cause you to violate airspace, and was official action taken against you?

What are the regulations for NOTAMS; e.g., are they strictly "informational" and you
depend on them at your risk? I've always assumed they could be issued at any time, but it
was understood pilots might not know about them for at least 4 to 8 hours, and you should
have it issued no later than the day before if at all possible.
--
Eric Greenwell - USA
- "A Guide to Self-launching Sailplane Operation"
https://sites.google.com/site/motorg...ad-the-guide-1
It is my experience that NOTAMS can be issued at any time. NOTAMS are enforceable and some can lead up to 100K fines, even one year in prison. If a runway was closed and a NOTAM was issued and you landed at that runway are you guilty of a violation posted by a NOTAM ? I wish I had the answer, but I guess we all could be guilty at some point in time.
I can tell you this, I am a commercial drone operator and I also hold a PPL, along with my 107 UAS certification. If I violate airspace that is restricted to drone operation the violation also goes against my PPL. Now I can get authorization to operate in no fly areas, but I must go through the FAA for approval which can take as long as 90 days. If I am doing thermal imaging with a drone, I make damn sure that I am operating outside of controlled airspace. The point here is that it does not take a NOTAM for me to be held responsible for violating airspace. I can fly my airplane or glider over a state wildlife reserve, but not my drone, go figure.