Anyone keeping a fabric plane in the open?

I bought my citabria last september. It was recovered, ceconite, 11
years ago. It has been outside, Philadelphia area, since then. The red
paint has faded from the sun. The underside of things hasn't faded at
all. I tried a fairly mild polishing compound on it but for the most
part that wasn't very helpful. I guess the polish really can't dig in
because the fabric flexes too much. On the leading edges, which are
rigid, however it worked well. I was going to try 1000 grit paper but a
fabric guy told me that they could try a rejuvinator on it. I don't
know what that is exactly but I understand it's a type of paint thinner
or dope. I'm taking it in for a small patch over a rivet next month so
I'll learn more then.

No question that a good hanger will help. I've heard that a damp hanger
can be worse than outdoor tiedowns.

Dave
68 7ECA

Malcolm Teas wrote:
Ok, I know the received wisdom that a fabric plane shouldn't be kept
in the open and should always be hangared.

But, I started to question this after noticing several fabric planes
in the open at my home airport. They look in better shape than the
metal winged planes sometimes. I also know that the newer fabrics
(Ceconite and others) last much longer than the old cotton. And that
UV resistants in paint help more.

Anyone really doing this? What are the results on your plane? Any
A&Ps seen results from outside fabric?

Thanks,
-Malcolm Teas

dave wrote:

I was going to try 1000 grit paper but a
fabric guy told me that they could try a rejuvinator on it.

Rejuvenator is a solvent that softens butyrate dope.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

Fabric suffers from UV more than anything. I've seen some
factory-covered airplanes that have almost no UV blocker, and you can
see daylight through the fabric while crawling around in the fuselage
or snooping through acces holes in the wings. It shoud be completely
dark in there; no UV or visible light.
Stits finishes are PVC (polyvinyl chloride), except for their
urethane finishes which are tough and shiny and a whole lot harder to
repair. Both weather well. Other urethane finishes are available but
many don't have the flexibility for fabric; they're intended for solid
surfaces and will eventually start cracking as the fabric flexes.
BTDT. Tires suffer from UV and ozone in the air.
Dark finishes result in more solar heating of the fabric, which
embrittles and weakens it over time. It can, in extreme cases, cause
further shrinkage of the fabric and crushing of airframe structure.
Water from rain, snow or condensation can get into the structure
and cause corrosion. In our climate, the winter snow can be very fine
and dry like dust, and gets into everything during a blizzard. Of
course, such fine stuff has little moisture in it and it can evaporate
(sublimate) when the sun comes out again. And then there's hail and
wind. I've seen some perfectly good airplanes damaged by wind, even
though they're still tied down. Control surfaces and stops beat up,
cables stretched, paint and plexiglass eroded by flying sand. Covers
are great but if the dust gets under them, you now have sandpaper
working on it. Dust gets inside the airplane, too. Adds weight and
clogs things up.
Dogs pee on props left poistioned vertically; saw one that had
holes eaten through it while it had sat through generations of canine
visitors. (Another reason to fly taildraggers!)
Biggest hassle with outdoor storage is probably the birds and
mice and their nests and poop and the resulting corrosion. They can
find ways into almost any airplane. Mothballs keep them out. Might
keep some of your passengers out, too. Everything's a tradeoff.

Dan

The fabric will last forever if the sun doesn't get to it!
If the topcoat doesn't comprimized there should be no problems.
After time the dope looses its flexability and cracks, which lets the
light get to the fabric.
If the dope is rejuvenated, it puts the flexability back into the dope
and your good to go. It's like putting a new coat of dope on the airplane.
It's all a game on keeping the UV away from the fabric which means that
the topcoat needs to be attended to to keep that from happening.
Fabric aircraft are absolutly great, they just have different care
instructions than spam can aircraft.

Cheers
Dave


Dan Thomas wrote:
Fabric suffers from UV more than anything. I've seen some
factory-covered airplanes that have almost no UV blocker, and you can
see daylight through the fabric while crawling around in the fuselage
or snooping through acces holes in the wings. It shoud be completely
dark in there; no UV or visible light.
Stits finishes are PVC (polyvinyl chloride), except for their
urethane finishes which are tough and shiny and a whole lot harder to
repair. Both weather well. Other urethane finishes are available but
many don't have the flexibility for fabric; they're intended for solid
surfaces and will eventually start cracking as the fabric flexes.
BTDT. Tires suffer from UV and ozone in the air.
Dark finishes result in more solar heating of the fabric, which
embrittles and weakens it over time. It can, in extreme cases, cause
further shrinkage of the fabric and crushing of airframe structure.
Water from rain, snow or condensation can get into the structure
and cause corrosion. In our climate, the winter snow can be very fine
and dry like dust, and gets into everything during a blizzard. Of
course, such fine stuff has little moisture in it and it can evaporate
(sublimate) when the sun comes out again. And then there's hail and
wind. I've seen some perfectly good airplanes damaged by wind, even
though they're still tied down. Control surfaces and stops beat up,
cables stretched, paint and plexiglass eroded by flying sand. Covers
are great but if the dust gets under them, you now have sandpaper
working on it. Dust gets inside the airplane, too. Adds weight and
clogs things up.
Dogs pee on props left poistioned vertically; saw one that had
holes eaten through it while it had sat through generations of canine
visitors. (Another reason to fly taildraggers!)
Biggest hassle with outdoor storage is probably the birds and
mice and their nests and poop and the resulting corrosion. They can
find ways into almost any airplane. Mothballs keep them out. Might
keep some of your passengers out, too. Everything's a tradeoff.

Dan

(Dan Thomas) wrote in message . com...
Fabric suffers from UV more than anything. I've seen some
factory-covered airplanes that have almost no UV blocker, and you can
see daylight through the fabric while crawling around in the fuselage
or snooping through acces holes in the wings. It shoud be completely
dark in there; no UV or visible light....

Sounds like a cover for the whole plane would be a good thing. Let
the cheaper cover take the UV and protect the wings & fuselage.

And thanks for givine me something else to check on used planes too...

-Malcolm Teas

"Dan Thomas" wrote in message
om...
Fabric suffers from UV more than anything. I've seen some
factory-covered airplanes that have almost no UV blocker, and you can
see daylight through the fabric while crawling around in the fuselage
or snooping through acces holes in the wings. It shoud be completely
dark in there; no UV or visible light.

Well, I think you're correct with regard to Stits or Polyfiber. But
doesn't one or two of the polyester aircraft covering systems claim to
filter out UV rays, allowing the visible infrared rays to go on through?

Stits finishes are PVC (polyvinyl chloride), except for their
urethane finishes which are tough and shiny and a whole lot harder to
repair. Both weather well. Other urethane finishes are available but
many don't have the flexibility for fabric; they're intended for solid
surfaces and will eventually start cracking as the fabric flexes.
BTDT. Tires suffer from UV and ozone in the air.
Dark finishes result in more solar heating of the fabric, which
embrittles and weakens it over time. It can, in extreme cases, cause
further shrinkage of the fabric and crushing of airframe structure.
Water from rain, snow or condensation can get into the structure
and cause corrosion. In our climate, the winter snow can be very fine
and dry like dust, and gets into everything during a blizzard. Of
course, such fine stuff has little moisture in it and it can evaporate
(sublimate) when the sun comes out again. And then there's hail and
wind. I've seen some perfectly good airplanes damaged by wind, even
though they're still tied down. Control surfaces and stops beat up,
cables stretched, paint and plexiglass eroded by flying sand. Covers
are great but if the dust gets under them, you now have sandpaper
working on it. Dust gets inside the airplane, too. Adds weight and
clogs things up.
Dogs pee on props left poistioned vertically; saw one that had
holes eaten through it while it had sat through generations of canine
visitors. (Another reason to fly taildraggers!)
Biggest hassle with outdoor storage is probably the birds and
mice and their nests and poop and the resulting corrosion. They can
find ways into almost any airplane. Mothballs keep them out. Might
keep some of your passengers out, too. Everything's a tradeoff.

Dan

Excellent information. Thanks.

Thanks George. I don't think I'll have that done when a get that little
patch next month but the annual is just around the corner. We'll see.
Dave
68 7ECA

G.R. Patterson III wrote:


dave wrote:

I was going to try 1000 grit paper but a
fabric guy told me that they could try a rejuvinator on it.


Rejuvenator is a solvent that softens butyrate dope.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.