cost of ownership

The Weiss Family wrote:

I'm trying to figure out how much renting I have to do before it becomes
plausible to own.

If you can't afford to spend $5,000 a year on aviation, keep renting.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

My low estimates were about $7000.
Boy, I'm really borderline. I might be able to get my wife on board for
this.
I'm taking her flying next Saturday. If she catches the bug like I have it,
it might be an easier sell ;-)

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


The Weiss Family wrote:

I'm trying to figure out how much renting I have to do before it becomes
plausible to own.

If you can't afford to spend $5,000 a year on aviation, keep renting.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

The Weiss Family wrote:

My low estimates were about $7000.

Well, my costs break down to about that.

Tiedown - $85.00/month. (was $75.00/month until recently).
Insurance - $1,200/year.
Annual - ~$900.
Maintenance - ~$500/year.
Fuel - ~$20.00/hour.
Engine bank - $7.00/hour.

So, we're over $3,500 a year without flying at all. After that, it depends on how
much you fly. Your figure is about right for about 100 hours of air time per year.

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

My low estimates were about $7000.

Then you should do it.
Also, remember that it is "likely" that your aircraft will appreciate in
value. While that isn't guaranteed,and should be treated as a bonus,
it is highly probable.

But the main reason to buy is that it changes your mission profile.
Example - I used to rent, fly around for 90 minutes and land. It was
never worth actually landing anywhere nearby, as my FBO charged 3 hours
minimum if ever the aircraft was out over 3 hours, regardless of how
long it flew.

Now on a weekend, particularly a bad weather one, I'll fly 30 minutes to
an airport where I will land, meet several friends, have coffee and BS
for an hour, then fly toward home for 15 minutes, land and do it again,
then fly home.

Total flight time less than 60 minutes.
Total time - all day.
Total aviation value - priceless.
Total cost - Variable costs $30.00.
Fixed costs I pay whether I fly or not.
So now I fly lots. Like you I agonized over the cost.
Once I bought I kicked myself for not doing it a long time ago.
And as an aside, there is a certain comfort in always finding the plane
as you left it, with your stuff in it, and knowing that it wasn't abused
on its last flight.

My advice is to do it - you'll find many benefits that you hadn't even
considered.

Tony



Tony Roberts
PP-ASEL
VFR OTT
Night
Almost Instrument
Cessna 172H C-GICE

Thanks Tony,

This is exactly the kind of thing I've been agonizing about, too. Not just
day trips, but what if I want to take a two or three hour trip to see
friends, and then stay for a week?

I don't want to pay a three hour per day minimum for seven days, when the
plane will probably only fly six hours total!

Thanks!

The Weiss Family wrote:

This is exactly the kind of thing I've been agonizing about, too. Not just
day trips, but what if I want to take a two or three hour trip to see
friends, and then stay for a week?

I don't want to pay a three hour per day minimum for seven days, when the
plane will probably only fly six hours total!

Again, if money is an issue, look at buying your first plane with a partner.
You'll have someone else to share the initial cost, the ongoing work and
fixed expenses, and if your partner is more experienced with planes, you'll
also be able to avoid a lot of the expensive, newbie-owner mistakes that I
(and probably many others) make. If you're at all serious about travelling,
renting isn't a realistic option.

I wasn't able to find a partner around Ottawa when I was first looking (I
cared about IFR and the other people I talked to didn't want to spend the
extra money), and I'm managing OK as a sole owner now, but the first 18
months or so were a little hairy. If you can remember what it was like when
you moved from an apartment to your first house (as owner), and suddenly you
were expected to know about how to deal with contractors, what quotes were
fair, what weeping tiles were, how to grade a lawn, building codes, property
taxes, etc. etc., you'll have a good idea of what it will be like at first
owning a plane -- just multiply all that by 10.

When you're getting close to buying, come back to the list and you'll be
able to find a lot of advice (more than half of it good). Here are a few
easy, generic checklist items for any kind of plane:

1. How much weight can it carry with full fuel? How about with fuel at
tabs? Is that enough for your family now? What about three years from now?
Since you have a family, useful load probably matters more than speed.
Flying with fuel at tabs might not be practical for IFR, with the
requirement for an alternate and extra reserves, so pay close attention to
the full-fuel load if you're an IFR pilot or are likely to become one soon.

2. How many recurring ADs are there for the make/model, and how much do they
cost to carry out? For example, an older Cherokee with a front-mounted oil
cooler will need to have its oil hoses replaced every 8 years, which is only
a couple of hundred dollars; other recurring ADs, however, can cost
thousands. Don't wait until you've already put down a deposit and paying
for a prepurchase inspection to find out about these, since you can easily
research them online from your desk while leafing through Trade-a-Plane.

3. What avionics do you need? It's a *lot* (ie. 50%-75%) cheaper to buy a
plane with the avionics you need already installed than to buy and install
them afterwards. If you fly IFR and think you're going to want a Stormscope,
autopilot, and/or IFR GPS, look at planes that already have those
(personally, all I really wanted for IFR beyond basic NAV/ADF/DME was a
Stormscope, which I had installed last month).

4. How close is the engine to TBO? Most people seem to prefer an engine
that is about 50% of the way along -- that way, any problems from the last
overhaul are already worked out, but you still have a long time until the
next one. The plane's price will be adjusted accordingly.

5. Have fun looking.


All the best,


David

David is exactly right about finding the right plane, my first plane (a cherokee
180), I ended up putting all kinds of speed mods on it, new avionics, then
decided it was not fast enough so bought my current plane a Turbo Arrow, this
time I got a plane that had things I wanted in it, HSI, airconditioning, some
speed mods, really good interior and paint. I did how ever still spend about 20k
for new garmin 430, audio panel, xponder and AM/FM/CD player for the wife to
listen to on those long trips.

the good thing about owning your own plane is your not restricted to anything
except weather and deciding where you want to go next.

David Megginson wrote:

The Weiss Family wrote:

This is exactly the kind of thing I've been agonizing about, too. Not just
day trips, but what if I want to take a two or three hour trip to see
friends, and then stay for a week?

I don't want to pay a three hour per day minimum for seven days, when the
plane will probably only fly six hours total!

Again, if money is an issue, look at buying your first plane with a partner.
You'll have someone else to share the initial cost, the ongoing work and
fixed expenses, and if your partner is more experienced with planes, you'll
also be able to avoid a lot of the expensive, newbie-owner mistakes that I
(and probably many others) make. If you're at all serious about travelling,
renting isn't a realistic option.

I wasn't able to find a partner around Ottawa when I was first looking (I
cared about IFR and the other people I talked to didn't want to spend the
extra money), and I'm managing OK as a sole owner now, but the first 18
months or so were a little hairy. If you can remember what it was like when
you moved from an apartment to your first house (as owner), and suddenly you
were expected to know about how to deal with contractors, what quotes were
fair, what weeping tiles were, how to grade a lawn, building codes, property
taxes, etc. etc., you'll have a good idea of what it will be like at first
owning a plane -- just multiply all that by 10.

When you're getting close to buying, come back to the list and you'll be
able to find a lot of advice (more than half of it good). Here are a few
easy, generic checklist items for any kind of plane:

1. How much weight can it carry with full fuel? How about with fuel at
tabs? Is that enough for your family now? What about three years from now?
Since you have a family, useful load probably matters more than speed.
Flying with fuel at tabs might not be practical for IFR, with the
requirement for an alternate and extra reserves, so pay close attention to
the full-fuel load if you're an IFR pilot or are likely to become one soon.

2. How many recurring ADs are there for the make/model, and how much do they
cost to carry out? For example, an older Cherokee with a front-mounted oil
cooler will need to have its oil hoses replaced every 8 years, which is only
a couple of hundred dollars; other recurring ADs, however, can cost
thousands. Don't wait until you've already put down a deposit and paying
for a prepurchase inspection to find out about these, since you can easily
research them online from your desk while leafing through Trade-a-Plane.

3. What avionics do you need? It's a *lot* (ie. 50%-75%) cheaper to buy a
plane with the avionics you need already installed than to buy and install
them afterwards. If you fly IFR and think you're going to want a Stormscope,
autopilot, and/or IFR GPS, look at planes that already have those
(personally, all I really wanted for IFR beyond basic NAV/ADF/DME was a
Stormscope, which I had installed last month).

4. How close is the engine to TBO? Most people seem to prefer an engine
that is about 50% of the way along -- that way, any problems from the last
overhaul are already worked out, but you still have a long time until the
next one. The plane's price will be adjusted accordingly.

5. Have fun looking.

All the best,

David