First Time Buyer - High Time Turbo Arrow

On 19-Jun-2004, " Mark Miller wrote:

I'll likely have to fly (commercial) to look at it, so I'm curious to hear
how people handle that. More than
one trip, I would guess.

Any advice would be appreciated.



Before spending a lot of time and money traveling to see the airplane, why
not have an objective person located nearby have a look? What we did in
this case was arrange for a local mechanic (NOT the one doing regular
maintenance on the plane) spend about an hour looking for obvious problems.
This is NOT an adequate pre-buy, just an initial screening to keep you from
wasting time and money on obvious dogs. A good $60-80 investment.

If the mechanic (or it could be a trusted pilot friend) reports back that
the plane APPEARS to be as advertised, THEN go ahead and arrange for a
thorough pre-buy and/or an in-person inspection.

--
-Elliott Drucker

Make sure you have the owner pick you up at the airport in his car.

You can pretty much make a determination, then and there, about the airplane
just by looking at his car. This happened to me when I went to Denver to
look at an Aztec that was billed as immaculate. When the guy (airline pilot,
that should raise the warning flag) picked me up in a beater BMW I suspected
the worst, and I was sorely disappointed in the airplane.

Sellers often extremely overstate the condition of the airplane for sale.

Beware, and remember the vast majority of pilots are cheapskates!

Karl



wrote in message
...

On 19-Jun-2004, " Mark Miller wrote:

I'll likely have to fly (commercial) to look at it, so I'm curious to
hear
how people handle that. More than
one trip, I would guess.

Any advice would be appreciated.



Before spending a lot of time and money traveling to see the airplane, why
not have an objective person located nearby have a look? What we did in
this case was arrange for a local mechanic (NOT the one doing regular
maintenance on the plane) spend about an hour looking for obvious
problems.
This is NOT an adequate pre-buy, just an initial screening to keep you
from
wasting time and money on obvious dogs. A good $60-80 investment.

If the mechanic (or it could be a trusted pilot friend) reports back that
the plane APPEARS to be as advertised, THEN go ahead and arrange for a
thorough pre-buy and/or an in-person inspection.

--
-Elliott Drucker

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 06:52:35 -0700, "kage"
wrote:

You can pretty much make a determination, then and there, about the airplane
just by looking at his car.


I don't agree. I drive a used car that looks like hell, but is
mechanically sound. I did this as a trade off so I had enough money
to buy and maintain my airplane (which looks nothing like my car).

z

I agree with you! For a long time the car I drove to the airport was a
sad-looking beater. It was roadworthy, like yours, but it wasn't the kind
that picked up chicks. Far from it.

"zatatime" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 06:52:35 -0700, "kage"
wrote:

You can pretty much make a determination, then and there, about the
airplane
just by looking at his car.


I don't agree. I drive a used car that looks like hell, but is
mechanically sound. I did this as a trade off so I had enough money
to buy and maintain my airplane (which looks nothing like my car).

z

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:44:31 -0500, "Henry Kisor"
wrote:

but it wasn't the kind
that picked up chicks. Far from it.

ROTFLMFAO! I've been acussed of that in the past when I've offered to
drive when going out with a few people. Well put.

Thanks for the laugh.

z

Before spending a lot of time and money traveling to see the airplane, why
not have an objective person located nearby have a look? What we did in
this case was arrange for a local mechanic (NOT the one doing regular
maintenance on the plane) spend about an hour looking for obvious problems.
This is NOT an adequate pre-buy, just an initial screening to keep you from
wasting time and money on obvious dogs. A good $60-80 investment.

I wonder what an A&P can actually tell in that amount of time. When I
was shopping for a Champ most A&Ps said they would need at least 5
hours before they know much of anything. My Mooney pre-buy cost be
$2500. I guess if there is something really obvious, this might help,
but otherwise, I'm not sure.

-Robert

(Robert M. Gary) wrote
I wonder what an A&P can actually tell in that amount of time. When I
was shopping for a Champ most A&Ps said they would need at least 5
hours before they know much of anything. My Mooney pre-buy cost be
$2500. I guess if there is something really obvious, this might help,
but otherwise, I'm not sure.

Unfortunately, most of the planes on the market have really obvious
things wrong with them. I can't comment on the Mooney, but here's
what I can tell about a Champ in an hour:

Condition of fabric - does it pass the punch test (at the minimum
acceptable strength using a Maule tester) on the top of the wings,
fuselage, and tailfeathers? Is there a shiny enamel coat? Cracking of
paint? Ringworm?

Condition of engine/prop - is there a weak jug when the prop is pulled
through? Are there exhaust leaks?

Condition of lower longerons - when I tap with a wrench, is there a
dull sound?

Condition of spars - have the inspection holes been cut? Are there
nails sticking out? Will a screwdriver go into the wood?

I assure you that I can accomplish all the above in an hour, and I'm
not a Champ expert (though I have wrenched on them a bit). What's
more, my experience is that 90% of the Champs for sale won't pass
those tests. Most of the planes out there for sale are dogs - and
that goes double if you're trying to get a 'deal.' If you pay for a
full-blown prepurhase for each one, you will soon run out of money.

Michael

(Michael) wrote in message . com...
I assure you that I can accomplish all the above in an hour, and I'm
not a Champ expert (though I have wrenched on them a bit). What's
more, my experience is that 90% of the Champs for sale won't pass
those tests. Most of the planes out there for sale are dogs - and
that goes double if you're trying to get a 'deal.' If you pay for a
full-blown prepurhase for each one, you will soon run out of money.

That's what caused me to give up the idea of buy a Champ as a second
airplane. I personally think most of them were airworthy but few
passed the FAA AD on the spar. A lot of A&Ps argue that the nails on
the spar were only there to hold it until the glue dries. In anycase,
the problem is finding an A&P to sign of your plane every year with a
non-AD compliant airplane. I did see some nice Champs, most of those
where in the $30K range.

-Robert