Cessna buyers in So. Cal. beware !

"Greg Copeland" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:47:04 -0500, Greg Copeland wrote:

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:27:51 -0700, Tom Sixkiller wrote:
GC said:
Ya, I had this same thought. Price rarely is a measure of suitability
for a purpose. I agree with ya. In fact, suitability, quality,
price,
and popularity often have little to do with each other.

Really? On what planet?

LOL. This one. Stay with the conversation, please. I'm laughing and
teasing a little because I'm trying to figure out if you're for real or
not. If you seriously believe what you're implying, you seriously have,
"sucker", written all over you. You seriously believe that top dollar
always buys best suitability for everything, every time? If so, I have
a
$900 plastic tub liner and a $600 hammer to sale you.

Ever buy something custom made?

If I really need a specific tub liner, and your's is all I have, it might be
worth $900.

Do you know WHY the military had to pay $600 for hammers and why they could
not get them at Ace Hardware.

I'll be happy to
ship as soon as I receive your check, and it clears. I'm more than happy
to sale as many as you'd like to purchase. Seriously. This is no joke.

Is the phrase, "common sense", nothing more than a cliche to you?

Evidently, terminology is foreign to you.

What does the term "price" mean to you (other than what TV advertising
says).

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:04:14 -0700, Tom Sixkiller wrote:

Ever buy something custom made?

Yes, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. As it related to
the items I mentioned, none were custom items. In fact, IIRC, according
to the press, Congresional hearings, and military people which were
interviewed, nothing was custom about them. In fact, it was mentioned
many times that any hardware store could of provided the items at a proper
price.


If I really need a specific tub liner, and your's is all I have, it
might be worth $900.

Not when you can go to the store and get one for 1/10 the price.


Do you know WHY the military had to pay $600 for hammers and why they
could not get them at Ace Hardware.

According to everything I ever read about the subject, there never was a
single reason to support those prices, aside from simply attempting to
steal from Peter to pay Paul. Feel free to correct as needed

Evidently, terminology is foreign to you.

Doubtful.


What does the term "price" mean to you (other than what TV advertising
says).

Oh shesh. I shutter anytime I hear this. As if it actually answers
anything. You said, "Maybe the fact that price is usually a measure of
'suitability for a purpose'." The problem is, it isn't. Price is a
measure of what the market is willing to bare for an item and often has
nothing to do with suitability or quality. Such statements also blindly
ignore the human condition, which is blindly open to manipulation by
marketing and sheer stupidity or ignorance.

The reason I poked fun is because you seem to give the impression that the
more you pay for something, with no exception, will always be better than
anything for which you can pay less. In otherwords, if I take two
identical planes, and raise the price 10% on one, you gave me the
impression that you think the higher priced of the two is
automatically better.


Cheers,

Greg

Greg Copeland wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:04:14 -0700, Tom Sixkiller wrote:

Ever buy something custom made?

Yes, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. As it related to
the items I mentioned, none were custom items. In fact, IIRC, according
to the press, Congresional hearings, and military people which were
interviewed, nothing was custom about them. In fact, it was mentioned
many times that any hardware store could of provided the items at a proper
price.


If I really need a specific tub liner, and your's is all I have, it
might be worth $900.

Not when you can go to the store and get one for 1/10 the price.


Do you know WHY the military had to pay $600 for hammers and why they
could not get them at Ace Hardware.

According to everything I ever read about the subject, there never was a
single reason to support those prices, aside from simply attempting to
steal from Peter to pay Paul. Feel free to correct as needed

Evidently, terminology is foreign to you.

Doubtful.


What does the term "price" mean to you (other than what TV advertising
says).

Oh shesh. I shutter anytime I hear this. As if it actually answers
anything. You said, "Maybe the fact that price is usually a measure of
'suitability for a purpose'." The problem is, it isn't. Price is a
measure of what the market is willing to bare for an item and often has
nothing to do with suitability or quality. Such statements also blindly
ignore the human condition, which is blindly open to manipulation by
marketing and sheer stupidity or ignorance.

The reason I poked fun is because you seem to give the impression that the
more you pay for something, with no exception, will always be better than
anything for which you can pay less. In otherwords, if I take two
identical planes, and raise the price 10% on one, you gave me the
impression that you think the higher priced of the two is
automatically better.

Cheers,

Greg


The True Value hardware would work fine - IF it met the required specs.

Therein lies the rub.

On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 22:11:28 +0000, Richard Lamb wrote:

Greg Copeland wrote:

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 05:04:14 -0700, Tom Sixkiller wrote:

Ever buy something custom made?

Yes, but it has nothing to do with the topic at hand. As it related to
the items I mentioned, none were custom items. In fact, IIRC, according
to the press, Congresional hearings, and military people which were
interviewed, nothing was custom about them. In fact, it was mentioned
many times that any hardware store could of provided the items at a proper
price.


If I really need a specific tub liner, and your's is all I have, it
might be worth $900.

Not when you can go to the store and get one for 1/10 the price.


Do you know WHY the military had to pay $600 for hammers and why they
could not get them at Ace Hardware.

According to everything I ever read about the subject, there never was a
single reason to support those prices, aside from simply attempting to
steal from Peter to pay Paul. Feel free to correct as needed

Evidently, terminology is foreign to you.

Doubtful.


What does the term "price" mean to you (other than what TV advertising
says).

Oh shesh. I shutter anytime I hear this. As if it actually answers
anything. You said, "Maybe the fact that price is usually a measure of
'suitability for a purpose'." The problem is, it isn't. Price is a
measure of what the market is willing to bare for an item and often has
nothing to do with suitability or quality. Such statements also blindly
ignore the human condition, which is blindly open to manipulation by
marketing and sheer stupidity or ignorance.

The reason I poked fun is because you seem to give the impression that the
more you pay for something, with no exception, will always be better than
anything for which you can pay less. In otherwords, if I take two
identical planes, and raise the price 10% on one, you gave me the
impression that you think the higher priced of the two is
automatically better.

Cheers,

Greg


The True Value hardware would work fine - IF it met the required specs.

Therein lies the rub.

According to the people, that *I* read and saw on TV, any hammer would of
met the specs. Likewise, the tub liner there was nothing special. And
you're right, therein lies the rub of why Congress was so ****ed off. As
I recall, it was a scam because they under bid a contract (or something
like that) and this was used to steal from peter to pay paul. AFAIR,
specs had nothing to do with it. It was a simple scam put forth to get
extra money. IIRC, toilet seats were also a line item which we were being
scammed on. Yes, that's right, normal, regular toilet seats. Plastic
seats at that.

Yet, according to Tom, we got the best value for our dollar from that
scam. Never mind that after the scandel broke, prices went back to what
they were before the scam started, which were all inline with what you
would find at any hardware store. Yet, Tom got his best value.

Seriously, you don't have to look that hard to see that Tom gets screwed
in just about every deal he makes.

In article ,
Greg Copeland wrote:

According to the people, that *I* read and saw on TV, any hammer would of
met the specs. Likewise, the tub liner there was nothing special. And
you're right, therein lies the rub of why Congress was so ****ed off. As
I recall, it was a scam because they under bid a contract (or something
like that) and this was used to steal from peter to pay paul. AFAIR,
specs had nothing to do with it. It was a simple scam put forth to get
extra money. IIRC, toilet seats were also a line item which we were being
scammed on. Yes, that's right, normal, regular toilet seats. Plastic
seats at that.

Yet, according to Tom, we got the best value for our dollar from that
scam. Never mind that after the scandel broke, prices went back to what
they were before the scam started, which were all inline with what you
would find at any hardware store. Yet, Tom got his best value.

Seriously, you don't have to look that hard to see that Tom gets screwed
in just about every deal he makes.

The problem with this discussion is that it is on specific items. The
entire bid has to be considered to get the $900 hammer in perspective.
Often there will be thousands of items in the bid, many of which will be
in the hundreds of thousands if not millions per item. Weeks will be
spent getting the price down on the more expensive items and then the
cheaper items will be used to tweak the total bid.

The price of small items pale into insignificance when the total bids
are compared.

LG

In article ,
Greg Copeland wrote:

According to the people, that *I* read and saw on TV, any hammer would
of
met the specs.

Well that explains it. When you learn a bit about hammers that have to be
made of special metals, then you can shoot your n=mouth off instead on
constinually indicting your scholboy ignorance and naivete.


Likewise, the tub liner there was nothing special. And
you're right, therein lies the rub of why Congress was so ****ed off.
As
I recall, it was a scam because they under bid a contract (or something
like that) and this was used to steal from peter to pay paul. AFAIR,
specs had nothing to do with it. It was a simple scam put forth to get
extra money. IIRC, toilet seats were also a line item which we were
being
scammed on. Yes, that's right, normal, regular toilet seats. Plastic
seats at that.

Yet, according to Tom, we got the best value for our dollar from that
scam. Never mind that after the scandel broke, prices went back to what
they were before the scam started, which were all inline with what you
would find at any hardware store. Yet, Tom got his best value.

Yup, they changed the specs back to a ferrous metal (which one exactly I
don't recall)...which is material that the airlines can't use.

Keep shoving your foot in deeper, punk.

PLONK

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:28:01 -0700, Tom Sixkiller wrote:


In article ,
Greg Copeland wrote:

According to the people, that *I* read and saw on TV, any hammer would
of
met the specs.

Well that explains it. When you learn a bit about hammers that have to be
made of special metals, then you can shoot your n=mouth off instead on
constinually indicting your scholboy ignorance and naivete.


Likewise, the tub liner there was nothing special. And
you're right, therein lies the rub of why Congress was so ****ed off.
As
I recall, it was a scam because they under bid a contract (or something
like that) and this was used to steal from peter to pay paul. AFAIR,
specs had nothing to do with it. It was a simple scam put forth to get
extra money. IIRC, toilet seats were also a line item which we were
being
scammed on. Yes, that's right, normal, regular toilet seats. Plastic
seats at that.

Yet, according to Tom, we got the best value for our dollar from that
scam. Never mind that after the scandel broke, prices went back to what
they were before the scam started, which were all inline with what you
would find at any hardware store. Yet, Tom got his best value.

Yup, they changed the specs back to a ferrous metal (which one exactly I
don't recall)...which is material that the airlines can't use.

Keep shoving your foot in deeper, punk.

PLONK

Wow. What a jackass! I noticed, yet again, you completed dodged
answering any of the questions. I love how you stand proudly and show
your true character. Believe me, we're all happy to nudge and wink at
each other and let you stand there.

Oh wait. One has to have a PhD in economics to figure out if they are
getting a bad deal. Nope, sure wouldn't want to talk about it. Nope,
it's much easier to yell, insult, and stress what kind of jackass you are,
without even being provoked. In second thought, I'm sure you're right. I'm
sure you always get what you pay for. Please, let me know where you are
able to shop, such that you're not buying from humans. Please. I'm ready
to get my best deals on everything too.

You just got to love the egotistical stroking and posturing that is Mr.
Sixkiller. After all, we all know the human condition doesn't exist.
It's a myth after all.

I bow to your greatness.

On Thu, 24 Jun 2004 08:37:25 -0600, Legrande Harris wrote:

In article ,
Greg Copeland wrote:

According to the people, that *I* read and saw on TV, any hammer would of
met the specs. Likewise, the tub liner there was nothing special. And
you're right, therein lies the rub of why Congress was so ****ed off. As
I recall, it was a scam because they under bid a contract (or something
like that) and this was used to steal from peter to pay paul. AFAIR,
specs had nothing to do with it. It was a simple scam put forth to get
extra money. IIRC, toilet seats were also a line item which we were being
scammed on. Yes, that's right, normal, regular toilet seats. Plastic
seats at that.

Yet, according to Tom, we got the best value for our dollar from that
scam. Never mind that after the scandel broke, prices went back to what
they were before the scam started, which were all inline with what you
would find at any hardware store. Yet, Tom got his best value.

Seriously, you don't have to look that hard to see that Tom gets screwed
in just about every deal he makes.

The problem with this discussion is that it is on specific items. The
entire bid has to be considered to get the $900 hammer in perspective.
Often there will be thousands of items in the bid, many of which will be
in the hundreds of thousands if not millions per item. Weeks will be
spent getting the price down on the more expensive items and then the
cheaper items will be used to tweak the total bid.

The price of small items pale into insignificance when the total bids
are compared.

LG

The real problem with this is that it's really a tangent to the topic
at hand. The details are really not what's important. The reason I felt
it was germane to the topic is that it highlighted that you don't always
get what you paid for and quality and price often have little to do with
each other. Worse, his credo completely ignores the human
condition, as I originally pointed out. Which, both contradict Mr.
Sixkiller's position. In otherwords, you don't have to look far to find
that his credo of, "you get what you pay for" (or whatever it was), does
not even make for a good rule of thumb, let alone always true.

But, he'd rather start ad homin (lol...punk....lol) attacks and push out
his chest than support his view point. Clearly, in his mind, no one has
the right to question him. After all, he knows more than anyone here, and
his ego isn't about to let him forget that. Of course, there is that
little pesky thing known as reality that I guess the rest of us live in,
but that sure is not going to get past his ego.

Summary of What We Learned:
I'm a punk and he always gets the best by paying top dollar.

Nuff said. I think we all understand were each stands.

"Greg Copeland" wrote in message
news
The reason I poked fun is because you seem to give the impression that the
more you pay for something, with no exception, will always be better than
anything for which you can pay less. In otherwords, if I take two
identical planes, and raise the price 10% on one, you gave me the
impression that you think the higher priced of the two is
automatically better.

But Greg. . . . "If it saves the life of just ONE child, it's worth it".

)

Rich S.

"Rich S." wrote:

But Greg. . . . "If it saves the life of just ONE child, it's worth it".

Even if it costs the life of several other people?

George Patterson
None of us is as dumb as all of us.