Complex / High Performance / Low Performance

A complex (land) plane has to have retractable gear AND flaps AND a constant
speed prop. If any one is missing then its not a complex plane. So a 172RG
would NOT be a complex plane because it has a fixed pitch prop.

A fixed gear 182 would be high performance but would NOT be complex because
it doesn't have retractable gear.

Here is the FAR:

Sec. 61.31
:
(e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes. (1) Except
as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as pilot
in command of a complex airplane (an airplane that has a retractable landing
gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller; or, in the case of a
seaplane, flaps and a controllable pitch propeller),
:
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with an
engine of more than 200 horsepower),
:

-Brenor


"R.T." brt5ATexeculink.com wrote in message
...
Good day all,
After reading some older posts with regards to aircraft purchasing allot
of
discussion seems to come up about Complex and High Performance aircraft.
My question is this? Is a 172 RG classified as a Complex aircraft? and a
182
fixed gear classified as a non-complex High Performance?
For my needs a decent payload is going to be important, so I am
considering
purchasing a 182 or possibly a Cherokee 6 (which would suit me even
better).
Any opinions on either of these aircraft good or bad would be appreciated.
Rob T

I was thinking the C172RG I used to fly had a controllable prop... mmmm

yep... sure enough.. here's the old UND check list complete with Prop cycles
on the before takeoff checks.. and MP/RPM for cruise settings.. I can't
find the reference, but it might have been 180HP..

so it would be Complex, but not High Performance.. C 172RG, Cutlass.. it was
a sweet flying Skyhawk.. did not cruise like a standard gear dragger..

BT

"Brenor Brophy" wrote in message
m...
A complex (land) plane has to have retractable gear AND flaps AND a
constant
speed prop. If any one is missing then its not a complex plane. So a 172RG
would NOT be a complex plane because it has a fixed pitch prop.

A fixed gear 182 would be high performance but would NOT be complex
because
it doesn't have retractable gear.

Here is the FAR:

Sec. 61.31
:
(e) Additional training required for operating complex airplanes. (1)
Except
as provided in paragraph (e)(2) of this section, no person may act as
pilot
in command of a complex airplane (an airplane that has a retractable
landing
gear, flaps, and a controllable pitch propeller; or, in the case of a
seaplane, flaps and a controllable pitch propeller),
:
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with
an
engine of more than 200 horsepower),
:

-Brenor


"R.T." brt5ATexeculink.com wrote in message
...
Good day all,
After reading some older posts with regards to aircraft purchasing allot
of
discussion seems to come up about Complex and High Performance aircraft.
My question is this? Is a 172 RG classified as a Complex aircraft? and a
182
fixed gear classified as a non-complex High Performance?
For my needs a decent payload is going to be important, so I am
considering
purchasing a 182 or possibly a Cherokee 6 (which would suit me even
better).
Any opinions on either of these aircraft good or bad would be
appreciated.
Rob T

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:hL6Ec.5949$z81.3182@fed1read01...
I was thinking the C172RG I used to fly had a controllable prop... mmmm

yep... sure enough.. here's the old UND check list complete with Prop
cycles
on the before takeoff checks.. and MP/RPM for cruise settings.. I can't
find the reference, but it might have been 180HP..

so it would be Complex, but not High Performance.. C 172RG, Cutlass.. it
was
a sweet flying Skyhawk.. did not cruise like a standard gear dragger..

I was at GFK when UND still had the Cessna's. What years were you there?

so it would be Complex, but not High Performance.. C 172RG, Cutlass.. it
was
a sweet flying Skyhawk.. did not cruise like a standard gear dragger..

I was at GFK when UND still had the Cessna's. What years were you there?


I was in GFK.. actually KRDR... from 1988-1991. The local FBO would lease
out the UND Cutlass's to renter pilots.. just schedule one and the FBO would
make sure there was one on his ramp from UND. It was a nice plane.. for a
172.. and it had the RNAV system in it.

BT

"BTIZ" wrote in message
news:eMmEc.7250$z81.6499@fed1read01...
so it would be Complex, but not High Performance.. C 172RG, Cutlass..
it
was
a sweet flying Skyhawk.. did not cruise like a standard gear dragger..

I was at GFK when UND still had the Cessna's. What years were you
there?


I was in GFK.. actually KRDR... from 1988-1991.

I was at GFK from 3/89-12/92.

Brenor Brophy wrote:

:
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with
an engine of more than 200 horsepower),

What does the training for the HP endorsement usually consist of?

Not much. You need to be able to discuss and demonstrate appropriate engine
management proceedures. That is, locate and use the correct procedures in the
POH. Since most high-performance aircraft also have a CS prop, the relationship
between RPM/MP/fuel flow will normally be emphasized. As will proper fuel since
many of these engines are high compression. Some knowldge of turbocharging and
fuel injection will normally be required.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer

10Squared wrote:

Brenor Brophy wrote:

:
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with
an engine of more than 200 horsepower),

What does the training for the HP endorsement usually consist of?

Thankfully this is top posting in this thread, it takes to much scrolling to
get down to the arse of the thread.....
;)

So for a fifty hour pilot that wants to fly (+ homebuild...) a complex, high
performance aircraft from his back yard (the nicest thing about living on
160 acres, is being able to make a runway and a hanger!) the extra training
is not much?

Yet it allows so much extra take-off and landing performance, especially at
a summer density altitude of 5000 plus feet and a tiny little 330 metres or
1000 feet of runway?

If only I could find a nice amphibion set of floats for it......

;)
Peter


"Steve Robertson" wrote in message
...
Not much. You need to be able to discuss and demonstrate appropriate
engine
management proceedures. That is, locate and use the correct procedures in
the
POH. Since most high-performance aircraft also have a CS prop, the
relationship
between RPM/MP/fuel flow will normally be emphasized. As will proper fuel
since
many of these engines are high compression. Some knowldge of turbocharging
and
fuel injection will normally be required.

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24 Musketeer

10Squared wrote:

Brenor Brophy wrote:

:
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance
airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person
may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane
with
an engine of more than 200 horsepower),

What does the training for the HP endorsement usually consist of?

In article , 10Squared
wrote:

What does the training for the HP endorsement usually consist of?

Meeting the minimum insurance requirements. ;-))

10Squared wrote:

Brenor Brophy wrote:


:
(f) Additional training required for operating high-performance airplanes.
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (f)(2) of this section, no person may
act as pilot in command of a high-performance airplane (an airplane with
an engine of more than 200 horsepower),


What does the training for the HP endorsement usually consist of?

For me it was a couple of patterns in my Skylane.


Matt