Garmin Price Fixing Post from other newsgroup

"Mark T. Mueller" wrote in message
...
Gotta raise the BS flag on this one. I don't buy it at all. I have gotten
absolutely ****TY service, MANY times from the "full-service", high dollar
"official dealers"... It ain't just the internet distributor working out
of
a rental storage unit with grey market goods that gives you crappy
service!!!


First, there are no guarantees, but I can assume you did not go back to them
right? Why did you choose them in the first place?




Same issue has been around for YEARS in the SCUBA equipment industry. The
manufacturers strong arm dealers. So large numbers of people all go "grey
market" via the net, so the manufacturers threaten to not honor any
warantee
for products bought outside the "official dealer network" (law suits are
pending...) SCUBA equipment is as expensive as the manufacturers want it
to
be. The dealers still pay the same wholesale price, and determine their
own
margins based upon any SPIFs. "Official Dealers" provide dog**** service
anyway, so why SHOULDN'T I go to the cheapest guy? I have to double check,
and sometimes fix their work anyway. My Golf Foxtrot bought a new
regulator
and comp from an "Official Dealer" SCUBA shop. This is LIFE SUPPORT
equipment. They ****ed up the set up, and she ran out of air at 85 fsw
because of a free flowing reg. From your "full service", high dollar
"official dealer" no less...


IT's not my dealer, so tell all your friends, tell the BBB, life's not 100%.
Don't like it, don't buy that brand any more! That is the whole point. If
the brand is controlling its distributors, then it should stand behind them,
and here your complaints. If not, DON"T BUY THAT BRAND.

So what if a dealer wants to sell a GPS below MSRP? Garmin makes the same
amount on their wholesale pricing. They are just trying to manipulate the
market a bit. Why don't you check out the WxWorx receiver for their marine
applications (where they have real competition.) Ain't no way in hell the
aviation version of the product will be less than $5K. The marine version
is
on the market now, and less than $1K. I seriously doubt there will be much
difference in the boards...


They already conrol wholesale cost, so this is really isn't the point at
all. You have a choice, don't buy it if you don't like the price. Garmin
knows that this will lose some customers, but they hope to have a better
outcome in the long run.

Call it what it is, price fixing. They bought UPSAT (don't really know why
UPS bought Apollo anyway.) Only a matter of time before Garmin starts
playing nasty. They already started in my opinion with their attitude
towards legacy product owners. I am a Garmin owner, but get a real slimy
feeling ever since they moved corporate off-shore to dodge taxes. Let's
just
wait and see how the WAAS upgrade that has been promised since last summer
for legacy units ends up.


Slimy feeling? Corporate moved off shore? Do you have an actual example of
service from Garmin you did not approve of?


Our only hope is that Bendix/King can pull their collective head out of
their ass and build some truely competitive products to force Garmin into
a
more competitive position.


Garmin was likely started in a garage like half the companies in the world.
Why don't you start a company and give everything away, while giving great
service. We will see how long you last before the conspiracy theories
start.

Its pretty obvious you have a Naderite fear of businesses. If not, I would
love to know what you do. Doing business with you is either hell or heaven.
I can't tell which.

Garmin was likely started in a garage like half the companies in the
world.
Why don't you start a company and give everything away, while giving great
service. We will see how long you last before the conspiracy theories
start.

Its pretty obvious you have a Naderite fear of businesses. If not, I would
love to know what you do. Doing business with you is either hell or
heaven.
I can't tell which.



Garmin was a fairly well financed start up by some PhD EEs if I recall.

I have no fear of business. I am against wasting money. If I pay a dollar to
a "top service dealer" for a product I can order on the 'net for 0.50, I
expect my ass to be kissed. If not, I better damned well see an extra 0.50
value in my doing business with him.

My point is, from my experience over the past 5 years, "quality services"
have largely disappeared across the board. Everything is becoming
commoditized. I made the mistake of going to a "highly regarded" paint shop
for their "Perfect Paint" system for my airplane. They shafted me so bad, I
would have been better off going for the lowest bidder. I just don't have
the time or patience for that kind of crap anymore. If I can't trust them to
get it right the first time, then I will just go cheap, or put a "liquidated
damages" clause in the contract.

Either I suck at selecting aviation-related service providers, or
statistically service has degraded across the board.

My last annual I went to a new IA that was "raved" by other owners. He never
did everything I asked for. I just left it at that. This is after being
raped by an IA in Florida last year.

So tell me again why I need to pay $1 from an "official dealer" when I can
get the same thing through the 'net for 0.50??? How is that bad business?

If Garmin is demanding I go through one of their "official dealers", I have
to ask if I really need a Garmin now, or just wait a few months for a price
drop or grey market or ebay.

Garmin was a fairly well financed start up by some PhD EEs if I recall.

I have no fear of business. I am against wasting money. If I pay a dollar
to
a "top service dealer" for a product I can order on the 'net for 0.50, I
expect my ass to be kissed. If not, I better damned well see an extra 0.50
value in my doing business with him.


You are acting perfectly rational, as you should as a player in the market.
The problem is that if Garmin is to have any hope of demanding quality from
its dealers, then they have to not do business with the ones that give away
product at a commodity price. No one can give full service at a commodity
price as a distributor. Your behavior is fair, and so is Garmin's. If I
were a distributor, and I saw Garmin's products for sale on the net for 50%
off, I would punt Garmin. I might also demand they take back anything I
could not sell.


My point is, from my experience over the past 5 years, "quality services"
have largely disappeared across the board. Everything is becoming
commoditized.

My point exactly, and a good part of the reason is too much price
information. I am not against the internet, but I think that businesses
have to react in some way if they want to have some control over the buyers'
experience. Garmin may not care how the product is moved, or they might.
But many places will not keep product in stock if they cannot get a good
margin. How many sales would Garmin lose if all the FBO's all carried AND
RECOMMENDED a competitor? It could happen if the competitor did a better
job of ensuring the FBO's were happy distributors.

I made the mistake of going to a "highly regarded" paint shop
for their "Perfect Paint" system for my airplane. They shafted me so bad,
I
would have been better off going for the lowest bidder. I just don't have
the time or patience for that kind of crap anymore. If I can't trust them
to
get it right the first time, then I will just go cheap, or put a
"liquidated
damages" clause in the contract.


I am not sure how come they are "highly regarded". When dealing with
service like paint and AP, you are best to use personal referrals whenever
possible. The only other hints are the professionalism they present in the
sales process, and the presentability of their literature, shop, etc.

None of these are sure things, but that has never changed. Price has not
necessaril been a quality indicator with these businesses. That is not new.
I am talking about Manufacturers and their distribution systems.

Either I suck at selecting aviation-related service providers, or
statistically service has degraded across the board.


I think every generation thinks that.

My last annual I went to a new IA that was "raved" by other owners. He
never
did everything I asked for. I just left it at that. This is after being
raped by an IA in Florida last year.

So tell me again why I need to pay $1 from an "official dealer" when I can
get the same thing through the 'net for 0.50??? How is that bad business?


You don't need to pay the dollar unless you want the product. If you can
get it for .50 then pay that. Just do not expect the guy who charges a
dollar, but also answers all your questions to stick around. He will go out
of business like the full service gas station.

If Garmin is demanding I go through one of their "official dealers", I
have
to ask if I really need a Garmin now, or just wait a few months for a
price
drop or grey market or ebay.


Waiting is fair, and eBay is fair. The grey market is Garmin's problem as
well, but they have a right to only warrant product with a clean record (
originally purchased from an authorized dealer). Their policy appears to be
to warrant everything. That may not last if the price policing does not
work. Eventually, all the big players try everything.