Garmin GNC 250XL

You are not about to ditch your AvMap?

Ditch the Avmap? Heck, no!

The panel mount Garmin's display and functionality is so vastly inferior to
the AvMap, that I would certainly look at *it* as the back-up unit -- not
the other way around.

However, I've got an old Narco 120 Com that works fine but is getting pretty
"long-in-the-tooth". I've also got an old Narco DME that works perfectly,
but is utterly useless to me.

I'd like to yank both those units, save about ten pounds, sell them on Ebay,
and replace them with a new Garmin GPS/Com combo. I think that would be a
great upgrade -- but I'd like to hear from folks who have one before making
the leap!
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:stqkd.321972$wV.301196@attbi_s54...
I'd like to yank both those units, save about ten pounds, sell them on
Ebay, and replace them with a new Garmin GPS/Com combo. I think that
would be a great upgrade -- but I'd like to hear from folks who have one
before making the leap!

I used to have one in a previous plane. Worked great. In addition, it can be
IFR certified, in case you decide to go that way. Can't remember the
subscription price, which in any case, has probably gone down since you can
probably renew through the Internet rather then sending data cards bck and
forth. In fact, I don't even remember if it used data cards, although I
assume it did...

Michael

Michael 182 wrote:

: "Jay Honeck" wrote in message
: news:stqkd.321972$wV.301196@attbi_s54...
: I'd like to yank both those units, save about ten pounds, sell them on
: Ebay, and replace them with a new Garmin GPS/Com combo. I think that
: would be a great upgrade -- but I'd like to hear from folks who have one
: before making the leap!

: I used to have one in a previous plane. Worked great. In addition, it can be
: IFR certified, in case you decide to go that way. Can't remember the
: subscription price, which in any case, has probably gone down since you can
: probably renew through the Internet rather then sending data cards bck and
: forth. In fact, I don't even remember if it used data cards, although I
: assume it did...

The subscription is about $360/year for internet based updates. That gets
you an update every 28 days (13 a year). You may be able to get a
subscription for a smaller geographic area for less $$$ (I can't with my GPS).

The 250XL is not IFR upgradeable. The 300 XL is IFR upgradeable with
apropriate additional equipment: CDI and annunciator/switch. The 300 XL can
be installed as a VFR only unit. Why the 300Xl is cheaper than the 250XL is
anyones guess, but I'd get the 300Xl over the 250Xl were it my choice.
--
Aaron Coolidge

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:stqkd.321972$wV.301196@attbi_s54...

However, I've got an old Narco 120 Com that works fine but is getting
pretty
"long-in-the-tooth". I've also got an old Narco DME that works perfectly,
but is utterly useless to me.

I'd like to yank both those units, save about ten pounds, sell them on
Ebay,
and replace them with a new Garmin GPS/Com combo. I think that would be a
great upgrade -- but I'd like to hear from folks who have one before
making
the leap!

I do believe if you wanted to use the GPS as a DME, you'll need to have the
300XL installed IFR (which would mean you'd need to replace/add a CDI, etc.
as well as the requisite paperwork). I've thought about replacing one of my
old RT-385 Nav/Coms in the C152 for the same reasons you state in your
original post, but the cost of doing the IFR install have held me off from
doing it so far. I figure if I'm going to install a 300XL I should probably
go for the IFR cert, otherwise it's just better to go get a Garmin 296 and
buy one of those MX slide in replacement comms and still have three grand in
my pocket. I was told between the radio and install I was looking at $6,000
or so. At that point I figured why not go for the extra and get a 430, etc.
Just like anything else in aviation, there is always something better for
just a little bit more. I have been told that if you install a Garmin 430,
it is legal to install without the CDI because of the way it was approved
(at least you don't need the CDI for GPS use). I've never seen one that way,
they all have the CDI, but I think that's if you want to use the NAV
abilities for VORs, ILSes, etc. I might be able to get away with the 430
since I have ILS on my primary navcomm.

--
Louis L. Perley III
N46000 - C152
N370 - PA-23-250

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 09:50:11 -0700, "Louis L. Perley III"
wrote:


I do believe if you wanted to use the GPS as a DME, you'll need to have the
300XL installed IFR (which would mean you'd need to replace/add a CDI, etc.
as well as the requisite paperwork). I've thought about replacing one of my
old RT-385 Nav/Coms in the C152 for the same reasons you state in your
original post, but the cost of doing the IFR install have held me off from
doing it so far. I figure if I'm going to install a 300XL I should probably
go for the IFR cert, otherwise it's just better to go get a Garmin 296 and
buy one of those MX slide in replacement comms and still have three grand in
my pocket. I was told between the radio and install I was looking at $6,000
or so. At that point I figured why not go for the extra and get a 430, etc.
Just like anything else in aviation, there is always something better for
just a little bit more. I have been told that if you install a Garmin 430,
it is legal to install without the CDI because of the way it was approved
(at least you don't need the CDI for GPS use). I've never seen one that way,
they all have the CDI, but I think that's if you want to use the NAV
abilities for VORs, ILSes, etc. I might be able to get away with the 430
since I have ILS on my primary navcomm.

I think the GNS430 will still require a CDI for an IFR-install.
However, the 430 will not require the external swtiching/annunciator
panel that the 300XL will, so the install of a 430 is a bit cheaper
than a 300XL.

Also, if you are only looking for a GPS install, you should look at
GNS400 (basically a 430 with GPS only), or the GNC420 (GPS/COM).

he panel mount Garmin's display and functionality is so vastly inferior to
the AvMap, that I would certainly look at *it* as the back-up unit -- not the
other way around.

Yes I love the ease of read with the Avmap
However it would not be legal to fly approaches with it.
I do not have DME and a lot of approaches
require DME or GPS. I thought about installing the Garmin 430, but the 480 is
only 2K more.
To upgrade the 430 for Vertical and horizontal capability will be 1500, if and
when it becomes available.
Hank

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 15:29:28 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote:

You are not about to ditch your AvMap?

Ditch the Avmap? Heck, no!

The panel mount Garmin's display and functionality is so vastly inferior to
the AvMap, that I would certainly look at *it* as the back-up unit -- not
the other way around.

However, I've got an old Narco 120 Com that works fine but is getting pretty
"long-in-the-tooth". I've also got an old Narco DME that works perfectly,
but is utterly useless to me.

I'd like to yank both those units, save about ten pounds, sell them on Ebay,
and replace them with a new Garmin GPS/Com combo. I think that would be a
great upgrade -- but I'd like to hear from folks who have one before making
the leap!

Jay, as a reference -

I very much enjoy having DME in the plane in addition to my yoke-mount
Garmin 295. It is helpful for identifying intersections during IFR
enroute, and is a nice to have (if not a requirement) for many
approaches.

What am I getting at? Even though an IFR GPS can substitute for DME,
I am not sure that I would remove the DME, and I certainly would keep
it if I installed a panel-mount VFR GPS.

-Nathan

Nathan Young wrote:
: Jay, as a reference -

: I very much enjoy having DME in the plane in addition to my yoke-mount
: Garmin 295. It is helpful for identifying intersections during IFR
: enroute, and is a nice to have (if not a requirement) for many
: approaches.

Seconded. I like having my DME, my IFR GPS, and my 295. The DME is very
easy to interpret (OK, I'm 12.6 from PVD, so I'm well clear of their 'C').
The 'B' airspace around me is derived off the BOS vortac, so it's helpful
there as well. I usually use the IFR GPS for point-to-point navigation while
keeping the DME tuned to navaids off to the side such as the BOS vortac I
mentioned, helps to stay out of their airspace.
--
Aaron Coolidge (N9376J)

: I very much enjoy having DME in the plane in addition to my yoke-mount
: Garmin 295. It is helpful for identifying intersections during IFR
: enroute, and is a nice to have (if not a requirement) for many
: approaches.

Seconded. I like having my DME, my IFR GPS, and my 295. The DME is very
easy to interpret (OK, I'm 12.6 from PVD, so I'm well clear of their 'C').
The 'B' airspace around me is derived off the BOS vortac, so it's helpful
there as well. I usually use the IFR GPS for point-to-point navigation
while
keeping the DME tuned to navaids off to the side such as the BOS vortac I
mentioned, helps to stay out of their airspace.

I know we all have our preferences, but DME seems to me to have been made
completely outmoded by the advent of moving map GPS.

My AvMap graphically depicts Class B airspace in a way that is so easily
understood, it would be virtually impossible to "bust" it without realizing
what you were doing. The DME would only confirm -- in a far less useful
format -- what the GPS is already telling me.

That, and the fact that I have no intention of getting my IFR ticket in the
near future, makes my Narco DME little more useful than a door stop in
Atlas. I *do* turn it on once in a while, just to see if it still powers
up -- but that's about it.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

That, and the fact that I have no intention of getting my IFR ticket in the
near future,

WHY?
Do you have VFR weather in your neck of the woods most of the time?
I just find it easier to file IFR, If it gets real bumpy I can always ask for
higher or lower and if denied cancel IFR.
Most of my flights are in VFR conditions, but I never know what the weather is
like at my destination. Of course I always call FS
but things can change in a hurry'
Hank