Talk About A Rude Company,

NW_PILOT wrote:

I am not looking for any guarantees in the instruction or amount of time I
know that's impoosible to do, it just cought my eye and wonderd what type of
writen guarante they provided. The only guarantees I am looking for is:

That the flight instructor going to be around for a certain amount of time
to finish my training?

You will never get that guarantee. I don't think any business will even
attempt to guarantee that and in most cases can't do it legally.
Indentured servitude went out the window years ago. In our "employment
at will" system, anyone can quit when they want and be fired at any time
by their employer. This is a case of an unreasonable expectation. I
had four flight instructors during my instrument training, including one
at FlightSafety in Lakeland, FL (since closed), that was a complete
disaster. I'd heard a lot of hype about FS, but that location didn't
live up to the hype even a little. It was worse than the two mom & pop
FBOs that I used (one before FS and one after). I finally found a great
free-lance instructor and finished my rating quickly.


That the flight school is financially stable and not in a sale or on the
verge of bankruptcy.

Very few private companies will disclose their financials. The only way
to know this is to only look at public corporations that offer flight
instruction. Their are probably a few of the big ones that are, but you
won't find many.


I want my instruction and rental rates guaranteed for a certain amount of
time I don't what them raising the rates as I progress in training it has
happened once already to me they raised the rates 3 times in 2 months at one
flight school.

Again, this isn't a reasonably request given the volatility of fuel
prices, insurance, etc. The only way you might get this is if you pay
the full estimated cost in advance. You are willing to do that, right?


I want to know if they have enough aircraft if one breaks down or has a
problem it will be fixed in a timly monor or I will have another aircraft to
fly at the same rental rate and that they don't plan on getting rid of the
aircraft anytime soon.

Again, very unlikely you will ever get a guarantee on this. And, again,
you have now pretty well ruled out most mom & pop FBOs and will need to
look only at large outfits such as FS, American Flyers, etc., which come
with their own baggage.


I am not asking for to much I just want to know that I am dealing with a
honest company that's not going to use fraud or deception to make a quick
dollar.

You are expecting way too much for this business in today's environment.
You are asking for way more than honesty and lack of fraud, you are
asking for guarantees on things that no business, let along an FBO, can
provide. I can see now why you had such a bad experience on the phone
with the San Diego FBO. You problem is staring at you from your
bathroom mirror, I believe.


Matt

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
[...] That part of the OP's
complaint is, at least, somewhat credible (or at least possible; I know
nothing about the FBOs in his neighborhood).

CJ, "NW", and I all fly in roughly the same area. There are numerous
well-qualified schools and instructors here who are perfectly willing to
train students in actual conditions.

I was trying to get my Instrument rating. Had problems with scheduling
a/c and instructors. Funny how all the CFIIs & FBO changed their tune
when they found out that I went to a 141 school (where I had to re-take
the written, you have to do theirs) and plunked down a few grand. They
all started saying that if I wanted it that bad they could've....

Now I'm getting the silent treatment when asking about commercial with
FBOs that advertise finish up courses. I have contacted three different
places that advertise commercial and multi. One even says you can get
an MEI with them. Email them my quals and ask what it will take (they
claim to do custom training based on your quals). So far I've gotten no
answers (and I've told them that I will fly my own plane to their
location).

No flight school where I am has a multi, and where I'm based they don't
have a complex. So I'm having to go elsewhere. The 141 school (kinda
local) takes 30 days to get you to CFI (that's the way their training
program runs), you must have commercial when you start.
Later,
Steve.T
PP-ASEL/Instrument

Matt Whiting wrote:

Indentured servitude went out the window years ago.

Seriously?! My boss tells a different story.

- Andrew

Peter Duniho wrote:

CJ, "NW", and I all fly in roughly the same area. There are numerous
well-qualified schools and instructors here who are perfectly willing to
train students in actual conditions.

Hmm. Then my next thought, given the context, is "burning bridges". Still,
sthompson's story is not that dissimilar to NW's.

Strange.

After many conversations with a couple of CFIs with whom I fly, I've come to
a conclusion: They're lousy businessmen. Believe it or not, they do all
they can to train their students in the most cost-effective way possible.
What the hell are they thinking?

Laugh

- Andrew

Andrew Gideon wrote:

Matt Whiting wrote:


Indentured servitude went out the window years ago.


Seriously?! My boss tells a different story.

Where do you work, Disney Land? :-)


Matt

On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 02:19:27 -0800, "NW_PILOT"
wrote:



Caveat Emptor!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In this case I think Caveat Venditor is more appropriate.

In article , Peter Duniho wrote:
"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
[...] That part of the OP's
complaint is, at least, somewhat credible (or at least possible; I know
nothing about the FBOs in his neighborhood).

CJ, "NW", and I all fly in roughly the same area. There are numerous
well-qualified schools and instructors here who are perfectly willing to
train students in actual conditions.

I know CJ's in the Seattle area. IIRC NW's in the Portland, OR area.
Close enough, I guess. I had wound up with a little over 8 hours
actual IMC by the time I got my rating.

FWIW, I finished my IFR training with Spence Campbell over at BFI. He
specializes in IFR training and owns a sim shop at the airport. His
program integrates sim training with the flight training and he's got
tons of experience. www.serv.net/~atc

He's anything but fly-by-night, and I don't recall him having any qualms
about training in IMC (except partial panel). Icing, of course, is a bit
of a problem in the Seattle area in the winter.

HTH,


Morris

Have you ever asked your local instructor why he won't take you up in
actual?


"NW_PILOT" wrote in
:

Hello, Everyone

I just called http://www.guaranteedflighttraining.com up after
e-mailing them about instrument flight training and they responded with
a sales pitch with out even addressing my questions, So I called then
today talked with a guy named mike well he was very rude, evasive and
avoided answering simple questions. When I asked him what their
guarantee was he said why don't you get flight instruction up there I
told him I was looking for a better value and the weather up here is
not ideal for training environment most all instructors will not go up
in actual because flight FBO will not allow insurance I guess or they
are not comfortable with being in actual them selves. He then asked me
if I had my written test done, I said no I have been studying but have
not been signed off for the test. He then was very rude and said Don't
understand why the instructors would fly with you out there. I told him
it is not me it's their preference fbo insurance ect. he hangs up on me
that is rude. Don't deal with them they sound like a fly by night
operation out to take large sums of money and close down.

This Company Has Triggered My Bull**** Detector.

Company Owner's Information:

Michael Upton
Guaranteed Flight Training
4142 Bannock Ave
San Diego, CA US
92117

Andrew Gideon wrote in
online.com:

C J Campbell wrote:

You certainly have triggered mine. Every instructor I know up here
will fly in actual. Of course, given the attitude, I suspect that it
is simply that nobody wants to fly with you.

There's one FBO in my area where an instructor (or anyone else) would
need to be a little nuts to take the planes into IMC. That part of the
OP's complaint is, at least, somewhat credible (or at least possible; I
know nothing about the FBOs in his neighborhood).

- Andrew



The thing that makes it incredible is his inability to provide an actual
reason for why no instructor will take a plane up in actual.

Had he said that the equipment at his FBO was not up to par, there would
have been no question by the remote Flight School, all other things being
equal. I'm sure a bunch of the r.a. regulars would have suggested he
switch to a different FBO...

I could be wrong, but I suspect that most CFIIs prefer to give their IFR
students SOME actual before the training is over. I know several of the
instructors that I have worked with in the past believed strongly that
the sensation of actual is unique for someone who has sat behind foggles
for all of his training, and prefer to be in the right seat the first
time it happens to a student.

The thought of an instructor refusing to fly in actual with a pilot
training for IFR smells of a pilot with a reputation for being unsafe.
And if he doesn't have a reasonable explanation for it, he may never have
really asked, and is just "kicking tires"...