Ever Seen a "Lifter" fly?

On 16 Jul 2003 13:38:07 -0700, (Dave
Jacobowitz) wrote in Message-Id:
:

This explains how these lifters fly:

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld-Brown_effect

No antigrav here, sorry to say.


The link you posted above regarding ionic wind fails to account for
the effect observed in a vacuum:

http://jlnlabs.imars.com/lifters/liftvacuum/index.htm
vacuum: according to this analysis there is no resultant force
upon the lifter in perfect vacuum resulting from the asymmetrical
electric forces, or it is negligible compared to the value in the
mN range measured in high vacuum of 1.333e-3 Pa by William B.
Stein at Purdue University.

(Mr. Stein has measured at least 0.31 mN with 0.12 m long
lifter at 17 kV. According to T. Townsend Brown’s letter from
February 14, 1973 the thrust in vacuum is linear with the
voltage. Since we have used 2.3 times higher voltage and 5
times longer lifter, we would expect a force of at least
2.3*5*0.31 mN = 3.65 mN. Even the higher value of F2 in the
second column is an order of magnitude smaller than what is
expected, based on measurements and it can not explain the
measured phenomena.)

Mr. Stein has proved in his paper “Electrokinetic Propulsion: The
Ionic Wind Argument” that the ionic wind effect can not explain
the phenomena in high vacuum. Since neither the electric forces of
the asymmetrical E-field can provide a magnitude of force that
could explain the measured thrust in vacuum, this analysis
confirms the theory that at high E-field intensities in vacuum an
unknown electro-gravity force is responsible for the measured
thrust.

In the presence of air: most of the thrust is provided by the
electric forces between the dense space charge around the corona
wire (causing a virtual increase of the wire diameter) and the
cylindrical edge of the plate facing the wire. This causes the ion
drift process described by Evgenij Barsoukov. Although the basic
principles in his theory are correct, the quantitative analysis
was based on unrealistic assumptions and the derived formula is
not valid (it is not in conformity with the measurement results).
Even if we could find a good approximate formula for this thrust
based on ion drift process, it still assumes the validity of
Newton’s 3rd law; that means this force would be ineffective if
the lifter would be fixed within a completely sealed box.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Here's another interesting device that should interest an EE:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/sclxmtr.htm

In contrast to the common Hertzian transverse vector waves, scalar
waves travel, or rather materialize at the receiving end, at
superluminal velocities. Scalar waves also quite effectively
penetrate trough objects, such as a Faraday Shield, which would
stop an ordinary electromagnetic (Hertzian type) wave.


At least the EE who showed it to me was convinced that it was a viable
starting point for an underwater communications device. He should
know, that's his business.



Disclaimer:

I have no affiliation with any of this stuff or the web sites.
It all looks like crackpot "science" to me, but I'm no expert.

No, this isn't anti-gravity, but the link doesn't tell the full story. It's
a good chunk of it, but not all of it. No one has come up with a
comprehensive, predictive model of what's going on. Back of the envelope
calculations that I've done with some EE friends and even checked with a
physics professor don't account for all of the force, so the mechanism must
be a bit more complicated than what we put in our model. As soon as I
finish with my thesis (MSEE in medical image processing) and graduate, I'll
be moving to Boston where I'll join a friend who just got funding for a
$10,000 3.5kW high voltage power supply that we plan to use to refine our
models.

I am cautious but very optimistic that this phenomenon will find uses that
include flying on one scale or another. It's just a matter of miniturizing
the power supplies enough, and I've been working on some ideas that I think
could work. It's very exciting, but not magic.

-Aviv

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
This explains how these lifters fly:

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld-Brown_effect

No antigrav here, sorry to say.

-- dave jacobowitz
-- jacobowitz73 -at- yahoo.com
-- PP-ASEL and EE

The link you posted above regarding ionic wind fails to account for
the effect observed in a vacuum:


Ah, a Bussard Ram Jet!

Don

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

It's not ion wind. It's related to what's known as a momentum shift related
to the right hand rule of force. The force is generated in a vacuum as
well.

"Aviv Hod" wrote in message
...
No, this isn't anti-gravity, but the link doesn't tell the full story.
It's
a good chunk of it, but not all of it. No one has come up with a
comprehensive, predictive model of what's going on. Back of the envelope
calculations that I've done with some EE friends and even checked with a
physics professor don't account for all of the force, so the mechanism
must
be a bit more complicated than what we put in our model. As soon as I
finish with my thesis (MSEE in medical image processing) and graduate,
I'll
be moving to Boston where I'll join a friend who just got funding for a
$10,000 3.5kW high voltage power supply that we plan to use to refine our
models.

I am cautious but very optimistic that this phenomenon will find uses that
include flying on one scale or another. It's just a matter of
miniturizing
the power supplies enough, and I've been working on some ideas that I
think
could work. It's very exciting, but not magic.

-Aviv

"Dave Jacobowitz" wrote in message
om...
This explains how these lifters fly:

http://www.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biefeld-Brown_effect

No antigrav here, sorry to say.

-- dave jacobowitz
-- jacobowitz73 -at- yahoo.com
-- PP-ASEL and EE

Can somebody spare me a lot of clicking and tell me what efficiencies
have been measured?

Don

In this mornings paper Microsoft just issued a warning that a Polish
computer group found a major security fault. All should check the
Microsoft site to see if it applies to 'your' system and if so, down
load the fix.

Big John


On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:31:24 -0000, (Dylan
Smith) wrote:

On Wed, 16 Jul 2003 15:12:37 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:
Okay, so why is this appearing three times on my newsreader?

There is a bug in Outlook Express. It thinks it had an error sending
the article, and tried to resend it (twice, until it thought it was
successful). However, there wasn't an error at all.

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:01:21 -0500, Big John wrote:
In this mornings paper Microsoft just issued a warning that a Polish
computer group found a major security fault. All should check the
Microsoft site to see if it applies to 'your' system and if so, down
load the fix.

Some kind soul out there keeps emailing me a patch for Windows that
fixes all security holes and all known bugs...


Morris (*cough*)

In a previous article, Big John said:
In this mornings paper Microsoft just issued a warning that a Polish
computer group found a major security fault. All should check the
Microsoft site to see if it applies to 'your' system and if so, down
load the fix.

Service Pack 9 from RedHat fixes them all.


--
Paul Tomblin , not speaking for anybody
Unix is an operating system, OS/2 is half an operating system, Windows
is a shell, and DOS is a boot partition virus.
-- Peter H. Coffin

Larry Dighera wrote:

The link you posted above regarding ionic wind fails to account for
the effect observed in a vacuum:

There's a fairly comprehensive site on lifter theory
summarizing experimental results he

http://sudy_zhenja.tripod.com/lifter_theory/main.html

They claim:

" There is no experimental results in deep vacuum. ... All
experiments in low vacuum made in this group showed no
thrust (due to plasma formation between electrodes) as
expected. "

Extremely low forces can be produced by:
1) electron emission from heated cathode
2) interaction of accelerated electrons with walls of the
chamber
3) thrust by electromagnetic radiation.

The first two work only in small chambers. The last
produces real but unusably low force. Most contrary results
showing lifter force in a vacuum are alleged to be
unreproduceable or the result of poor vacuum.

Todd Pattist
(Remove DONTSPAMME from address to email reply.)
___
Make a commitment to learn something from every flight.
Share what you learn.

Morris

Think that one is a virus????

You can go to MS and look without getting into trouble.


Big John

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 17:57:55 -0000,
(journeyman) wrote:

On Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:01:21 -0500, Big John wrote:
In this mornings paper Microsoft just issued a warning that a Polish
computer group found a major security fault. All should check the
Microsoft site to see if it applies to 'your' system and if so, down
load the fix.

Some kind soul out there keeps emailing me a patch for Windows that
fixes all security holes and all known bugs...


Morris (*cough*)