C172S Landing accident

Big John wrote:

I never shut down a SE (conventual engine) when training anyone
(Military or GA). Never heard of any Instructor who did?

They exist. There's a flight school in this area where it
(used to, any way) be the normal procedure to simulate by
shutting off the fuel in a C152. That wouldn't go over
real well with the PIC in this girl's plane. I never heard
of an accident from it though (at that flight school).
There have been such accidents, though, where the engine
wouldn't restart fast enough.

OTOH, there've been accidents where an engine left
throttle idle wouldn't put out power on request, either
(carb ice probably). So who am I to vote? I suppose
I do have an opinion that overall retarding the mixture
is the most reliable method in a carburetted piston
single, but I fly a plane with a carb installation that's
not particularly ice-prone for several reasons, so I
don't object to the throttle.

And of course, if the instructor is proficient enough
to dead-stick the plane onto the runway, it's a moot
point. I'm not sure that's true of the average instructor
today though

To practice a engine out forced landing I set the power to
zero thrust' and bird flew very similar to what it would
if engine was out.

Is there such a setting for a piston single w/ a controllable
prop? How would you find it?

For a stone-simple fixed pitch piston single like mine,
unfortunately there's no way (that I know of) to simulate
engine-out. I just try to land w/ a good chunk of runway
behind me when I'm practicing, to allow for the drag of a
windmilling prop.

Unless of course my Tiger does an Inhofe. *avert*

I did shut down the engine (Jet) on the T-33 to give students the
actual air start experience.

Would get 15K or so over either one of the aux fields or 'home plate'
and after doing some things with idle throttle (power off stalls,
etc.) I'd very gently pull the throttle back to 'Idle Cut Off' from
the rear cockpit. It would take the student a minute or so to say "the
engine isn't running". Surprise, Surprise G

Interesting, thanks for the story.

I bet you're the sort of CFI who would palm the TC fuse on
a student, too *g* or make them fly IFR without the entire
pitot-static instruments. You and my CFI would probably get
along all too well.

Lots of good discussion on thread. Just need a beer (and spittoon) to
make it like old time 'Hanger Flying' G

Well, if you're near St. Louis Big John and you let me know, the
beer's on me. By a flexible definition of "near" mind you...

Concur. But in a SE plane, I think the student is best taught to
*touch* the fuel valve and mags while reciting the checklist, rather
than actually shutting them off during training. That's where my
"safe limits" lie, in any case.

I can live with both but feel that my way has more merit G

Now I'm confused, didn't you start off saying you'd never shut
down a piston SE during training? So aren't we agreeing?

Best,
Sydney