My Plane Almost Became an Insurance Claim

"BTIZ" wrote in message news:vPjZa.7863$2g.4280@fed1read05...
I wonder whose insurance company is going to own what in the end?

The sellers... he's the one that let the prospective buyer in the cockpit.

Huh, the only liability the seller has is if he didn't maintain the
plane correctly. Allowing someone to borrow your toys does not
necessarily make you civil liable for their actions. The pilot better
hope he has insurance if he has any assets.

john smith wrote:

JimC wrote:

I put some pictures on the web at address - http://navionpics.swegian.com/

Looks more like a Meyer than a Navion.

Aha!!!
A Rangemaster! (Thanks, Margy)

Sridhar Rajagopal wrote:

Would the manufacturer come into the picture here? Pointing at a
defective seat, leading to seat slide out, etc. Just wondering ...

Yeah, let me see... The manufacturer made a seat well over 50 years ago
and has had no input to how that seat was maintained or modified...
Sure, we could sue them! Now would you have to find the actual
manufacturer that made the plane at the time or the present owner of the
type certificate as it has passed hands a number of time since. Of
course I've never heard of a Navion having a slide out problem (I'm
lucky if I can get mine to move).

Let's face it, if you don't maintain things and/or set them properly
they aren't going to work. I would bet the pin on the seat assembly
wasn't fitted into the hole properly.

Margy

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Yeah, the scenario I was looking at was a known problem with slideout
in a Navion (or another plane in a similar situation). br
br
I know that this was an unfortunate accident, but there seem to be a
lot of questions regarding blame, and liability. Both the seller and
buyer would seem to be affected by this. br
br
-Sridharbr
br
Margy Natalie wrote:br
blockquote type="cite" "
pre wrap=""
Sridhar Rajagopal wrote:

/pre
blockquote type="cite"
pre wrap=""Would the manufacturer come into the picture here? Pointing at a
defective seat, leading to seat slide out, etc. Just wondering ...
/pre
/blockquote
pre wrap=""!----
Yeah, let me see... The manufacturer made a seat well over 50 years ago
and has had no input to how that seat was maintained or modified...
Sure, we could sue them! Now would you have to find the actual
manufacturer that made the plane at the time or the present owner of the
type certificate as it has passed hands a number of time since. Of
course I've never heard of a Navion having a slide out problem (I'm
lucky if I can get mine to move).

Let's face it, if you don't maintain things and/or set them properly
they aren't going to work. I would bet the pin on the seat assembly
wasn't fitted into the hole properly.

Margy

/pre
/blockquote
/body
/html

On 10 Aug 2003 10:10:48 -0700, (Craig) wrote:
And then there was the one down in the Detroit area where some one
hand propped to get started which it did...and promptly taxied right
into some one's just finished G-III, or lancair IV. I forget which.

Then we had one at our airport where a guy was taxying back to the
hanger leaning the engine he said to keep it cool. OK, so he had a
different physics professor....

It quit. He pushed the mixture back in, got out and propped it
(without retarding the throttle). Said plane decided to leave without
him...He caught the strut, but tripped and stuck his nose in the dirt.
The plane continued on, took off and ended up in the trees at the SW
corner of the airport..

It looked kinda forlorn hangin there.

Roger Halstead (K8RI EN73 & ARRL Life Member)
www.rogerhalstead.com
N833R World's oldest Debonair? (S# CD-2)

We had an incident like this when I was in tech school in '79. Fairly
new C-172 with an instructor and a passenger. I think the passenger
was an FAA guy or rep, but can't remember. Aircraft was started like
normal and began a very slow taxi. The instructor added a little power
as they needed to do a 180 and go up our slightly inclined main ramp.
Just as he added power, the seat broke completely off the tracks. He
went over backwards, throttle full in and yoke full back and then bent
downward. Passenger got tangled up with his flailing about and ended
up bailing out. The a/c hit the big refueler that was parked about
200 feet away. Spinner went into the side of it right between the tank
and the cab. The only thing that saved the field from having a big
problem was the mechanics had just dumped the entire 2000 or so
gallons of avgas to change a fitting out on the tank bottom that was
leaking. Did a few hundred bucks damage to the tanker, but totaled
the 172.

Craig C.

In article , JimC wrote:
I don't know all the details and what I know is second hand, but it appears
a prospective buyer of a Navion lost control of the plane on the ramp and
caused some serious damage. This happened mid week at Avion Jet Center,
Sanford Airport (SFB), just north of Orlando, FL.

Haven't seen the pictures since looks like web site no longer nonexistent
but sure sounds bad. Glad the outcome was good from human angle, even if
very expensive on the wallet angle.

And quite fortunate for Jim, indeed!

Allegedly, the prospective buyer started the plane and suffered a seat
slide-back with the throttle and prop control pushed all the way in.

That's just the thing I don't understand...

Seems to me that if your seat slid back suddenly and quite unexpectedly,
the natural human reaction is to grab *something*, _anything_ to hold on to
-- that means, for one thing, pulling the yoke towards you, possibly all
the way if you had a full travel for the seat sliding backwards.

Now, the thing is... if your hand was on the throttle, wouldn't you also
happen to pull it outwards (ie, reducing power) if you slid backwards?

Granted, I'm more familiar with the Cessna spamcan designs so I don't know
if the throttles in other planes are designed differently.

It just seems unlikely to me that the throttle would have had been 'all the
way in' for taxiing, so it's more probable that it was pushed inwards while
travelling backwards... but that's precisely what I don't understand how
could be possible in the first place.

-Dan

P.S. I normally wonder how to react if seat slid back during the later part
of the takeoff roll... a number of NTSB reports on takeoff stalls due to
seat sliding backwards, with poor results.

That's just a hidden what-if concern, but I'll admit I hadn't quite thought
of it as ordinarily something to be concerned about during taxiing.

"Dan Foster" wrote in message ...



Now, the thing is... if your hand was on the throttle, wouldn't you also
happen to pull it outwards (ie, reducing power) if you slid backwards?

That was the great problem with the Cessna seat latch failures is that
most people grab the yoke to try to save themselves. If you'd grab
anything else, you'd be OK.


Granted, I'm more familiar with the Cessna spamcan designs so I don't know
if the throttles in other planes are designed differently.

It just seems unlikely to me that the throttle would have had been 'all the
way in' for taxiing, so it's more probable that it was pushed inwards while
travelling backwards... but that's precisely what I don't understand how
could be possible in the first place.


The throttle in the Navion works the same way as the Cessna. And while it
takes a good goose of the throttle to get the big squishy tires to start to roll
on the Navion, you're not anywhere near full thorttle when you do that. If he'd
pulled the mixture (also about the same as the Cessna, only it's not a vernier
control), the plane would have stopped in short order.

I don't understand how it can "slide back" in that circumstances. Even the
Cessna seats take some push to move them back on level ground. It was in
the nose high attitude that the problems occur. The Navion seats take even
more force to slide them back (after you pull the pin).

I always take off with just the knuckle of my first finger holding the
throttle in and my hand in a fist. That way, if the seat slides back, I
won't have to deal with restoring power at the same time I'm trying to
remember to let go of the yoke.
--
Roger Long