Wellston Crash Report Quote

The NTSB report concluded that that pilot stalled the aircraft. How would a
control tower or a local FSS have prevented that?

Best regards,

Steve Robertson
N4732J 1967 Beechcraft A23-24

EDR wrote:

Aero-News Quote of the Day

"This tragic accident that took the lives of a respected U.S. Senator,
members of his family, staff, and the flight crew, shocked us all... It
sadly and starkly points out the need for more aggressive action to
improve safety in the on-demand charter industry."

Source: NTSB Chairman Ellen G. Engleman, commenting on the final report
issued in the NTSB investigation of the KingAir crash that took the
life of Senator Paul Wellstone and seven others.

You don't suppose the federal governments decisions to close local
flight service stations (and control towers that report weather) over
the past twenty years have had anything to do with it, do you?

In article , Steve Robertson
wrote:

The NTSB report concluded that that pilot stalled the aircraft. How would a
control tower or a local FSS have prevented that?

He stalled it because he flew into icing conditions and iced up.
AFSS's are so widely located the the local weather the smaller local
FSS's would gather provided filled in the gaps.

"EDR" wrote in message
...

He stalled it because he flew into icing conditions and iced up.
AFSS's are so widely located the the local weather the smaller local
FSS's would gather provided filled in the gaps.


There are more weather observation stations now than before FSS
consolidation. One of them is at the Eveleth-Virginia airport.

In article . net,
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

There are more weather observation stations now than before FSS
consolidation. One of them is at the Eveleth-Virginia airport.

AWOS and ASOS are no substitute for human observers and balloons.
It would be an interesting study to learn how many accidents have been
caused by pilots flying into conditions reported by ASOS and AWOS.

On 2003-11-19 20:52:17 -0800, EDR said

In article . net
Steven P. McNicoll wrote

There are more weather observation stations now than before FS
consolidation. One of them is at the Eveleth-Virginia airport

AWOS and ASOS are no substitute for human observers and balloons
It would be an interesting study to learn how many accidents have bee
caused by pilots flying into conditions reported by ASOS and AWOS


Are you offering to fund all of these human observers

In article , Larry
Fransson wrote:

hey Larry, how about using CR/LF or linewraps in your posts? please.

--
Bob Noel

On 2003-11-20 04:23:29 -0800, Bob Noel said

In article , Larry
Fransson wrote

hey Larry, how about using CR/LF or linewraps in your posts? please

--
Bob Noe


Hmmm...my posts appear fine to me (in two different newsreaders, even). Which newsreader are you using? Do all of my posts have that problem, and does anyone else see them badly formatted

I'm beta testing a new newsreader, so if it has formatting problems, that would be good to know!

"EDR" wrote in message
...

AWOS and ASOS are no substitute for human observers and balloons.
It would be an interesting study to learn how many accidents have been
caused by pilots flying into conditions reported by ASOS and AWOS.


You still don't get it. AWOS isn't substituting for a human observer at
EVM. There was no human observer at EVM before the AWOS. If EVM didn't
have AWOS it would have no weather reporting at all.

In article k.net,
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:

You still don't get it. AWOS isn't substituting for a human observer at
EVM. There was no human observer at EVM before the AWOS. If EVM didn't
have AWOS it would have no weather reporting at all.

No, you don't get it.
Weather observers were not just located at FSSs and airports. They were
also reported from other stations. For example, up until about five
years ago, there were a human observer reports from ECK. Is ECK an
airport? No. Is ECK a FSS? No. What is ECK? It's a VOR. You have to go
back and find a list of weather reporting stations from 20 years ago to
determine what other stations in the EVM area reported weather. Weather
reported from 100 miles or more distant from your destination is not
going to give you an accurate picture.
The guys and gals that worked in the local FSSs got to know local
conditions. They could look at an area forcast, get a big grin on their
faces and say to themselves, "Not here it isn't."
On my way back from Oshkosh this year I spoke with a briefer at Terre
Haute, and discussed local conditions between Fort Wayne and Muncie.
She had been around long enough and educated by the briefers that had
once been located in Eastern Indianna, and she knew that the weather in
how local conditions affected the area forecast. That kind of knowledge
is very rare in todays forecasting environment.
Computer graphics, ASOS and AWOS are helpful, but they do not fill in
the vast gaps of knowledge that were previously available to the
system.

"EDR" wrote in message
...

No, you don't get it.


No, it really is you that does not get it.



Weather observers were not just located at FSSs and airports. They were
also reported from other stations. For example, up until about five
years ago, there were a human observer reports from ECK. Is ECK an
airport? No. Is ECK a FSS? No. What is ECK? It's a VOR.


That seems unlikely. I can find no reference to ECK weather observations in
any place one would expect to find them. ECK has been a location for winds
and temperatures aloft forecasts for many years and remains so today.
You're no doubt confusing surface weather observations with winds aloft
forecasts.



You have to go
back and find a list of weather reporting stations from 20 years ago to
determine what other stations in the EVM area reported weather. Weather
reported from 100 miles or more distant from your destination is not
going to give you an accurate picture.


This is part of what you still don't get. The weather reporting stations
that were operating twenty years ago are operating today. There are MORE
weather observation stations today than there were then. One of them is at
EVM, Wellstone's destination. Having a weather observer at your destination
is better than not having a weather observer at your destination.

In any case, weather did not put Wellstone's plane on the ground, the pilot
did. He was initially too fast and then slowed too much. He stalled.
Pilot error.