Air Force One seen by BA pilot

Big John wrote:

I want to put together an agenda where airline pilots will load and
unload the bird if it is hi-jacked (hi-jackers have no access to
cockpit).

No aileron (bank) or rudder (yaw) inputs other than what is need to
keep bird on a straight line. Only elevator input with a clean bird
(no flaps, etc.).

The figures given seem to be about 2.5 +G's and 1.5 -G's. I'm not sure
those are the figures I want? Are these 'company' figures for
passenger comfort or airframe longevity or the manufactures structural
limits that should not be exceeded at any time? Also what is design
ultimate if it is available?
Isn't that essentially what the El Al captain did back in the 70s?

mateo

Not sure. Todays pilots and airline Companies don't want to do it as I
read. (

Big John

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:03:03 -0500, Mateo wrote:

Big John wrote:

I want to put together an agenda where airline pilots will load and
unload the bird if it is hi-jacked (hi-jackers have no access to
cockpit).

No aileron (bank) or rudder (yaw) inputs other than what is need to
keep bird on a straight line. Only elevator input with a clean bird
(no flaps, etc.).

The figures given seem to be about 2.5 +G's and 1.5 -G's. I'm not sure
those are the figures I want? Are these 'company' figures for
passenger comfort or airframe longevity or the manufactures structural
limits that should not be exceeded at any time? Also what is design
ultimate if it is available?
Isn't that essentially what the El Al captain did back in the 70s?

This method was discussed quite a lot in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 and
both Boeing and Airbus tested it out in the simulators. The presentation I
got from them both was that this was not a viable option. It may have, and
may will, work in exceptional circumstances in an isolated case, but their
view was that it wasn't worth developing a procedure and training pilots to
do it. A bulletproof door on the cockpit was a much better solution.

Shawn
"Big John" wrote in message
...
mateo

Not sure. Todays pilots and airline Companies don't want to do it as I
read. (

Big John

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:03:03 -0500, Mateo wrote:

Big John wrote:

I want to put together an agenda where airline pilots will load and
unload the bird if it is hi-jacked (hi-jackers have no access to
cockpit).

No aileron (bank) or rudder (yaw) inputs other than what is need to
keep bird on a straight line. Only elevator input with a clean bird
(no flaps, etc.).

The figures given seem to be about 2.5 +G's and 1.5 -G's. I'm not sure
those are the figures I want? Are these 'company' figures for
passenger comfort or airframe longevity or the manufactures structural
limits that should not be exceeded at any time? Also what is design
ultimate if it is available?
Isn't that essentially what the El Al captain did back in the 70s?

Shawn

I'd love to get the final report of their testing to compare with my
years of experience with both plus and negative G's.

Any idea where I might get same?

My second suggestion is to dump the cabin pressure and drop the masks.
If the terroriests have to put on a mask they will be limited to the
2-3 foot hose length from ceiling to mask. Would limit their activity
in cabin.

All of the things I would propose, together would stop any action in
cabin on the part of terroriests I believe?

Have a nice day.

Big John


On Thu, 4 Dec 2003 09:18:16 -0000, "ShawnD2112"
wrote:

This method was discussed quite a lot in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 and
both Boeing and Airbus tested it out in the simulators. The presentation I
got from them both was that this was not a viable option. It may have, and
may will, work in exceptional circumstances in an isolated case, but their
view was that it wasn't worth developing a procedure and training pilots to
do it. A bulletproof door on the cockpit was a much better solution.

Shawn
"Big John" wrote in message
.. .
mateo

Not sure. Todays pilots and airline Companies don't want to do it as I
read. (

Big John

On Mon, 01 Dec 2003 22:03:03 -0500, Mateo wrote:

Big John wrote:

I want to put together an agenda where airline pilots will load and
unload the bird if it is hi-jacked (hi-jackers have no access to
cockpit).

No aileron (bank) or rudder (yaw) inputs other than what is need to
keep bird on a straight line. Only elevator input with a clean bird
(no flaps, etc.).

The figures given seem to be about 2.5 +G's and 1.5 -G's. I'm not sure
those are the figures I want? Are these 'company' figures for
passenger comfort or airframe longevity or the manufactures structural
limits that should not be exceeded at any time? Also what is design
ultimate if it is available?
Isn't that essentially what the El Al captain did back in the 70s?

Big John wrote

All of the things I would propose, together would stop any
action in cabin on the part of terroriests I believe?

John, all of these things have been proposed and discussed at
length by various committees of the ALPA and FAA for as far
back as hijackings have occured. Despite the fact that I was
never an ALPA member (against my religion), ALPA has probably
done more for aircarrier safety than has the FAA. Those pilots
really are concerned about their own butts.

Bob Moore

Bob

These are part of a proposal I put together right after 9/11(well
before any committees were selected and started their delibertations).

I'll go back and start through the system and see what I can find on
the subject and who said what and why..

As an aside, I'm also pursuing the proposal that ball point pens be
banned from the cabin..I demonstrated to my Representative that I
could take one and kill an individual faster then is possible with
nail clippers or a pen knife.

Tnx for the info.

Big John


On Fri, 05 Dec 2003 13:39:49 GMT, Robert Moore
wrote:

Big John wrote

All of the things I would propose, together would stop any
action in cabin on the part of terroriests I believe?

John, all of these things have been proposed and discussed at
length by various committees of the ALPA and FAA for as far
back as hijackings have occured. Despite the fact that I was
never an ALPA member (against my religion), ALPA has probably
done more for aircarrier safety than has the FAA. Those pilots
really are concerned about their own butts.

Bob Moore