Grandmother Goes Down at the Pole

Cub Driver wrote:

It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.

5. The US offered transport out for both him and his plane - he didn't need
to fly out.

To much of the world, the West Island of New Zealand is known as Australia,
and it's definitely not the Grey Havens. Mr Johannson was from Adelaide.

Bruce Hamilton

Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Cub Driver wrote:


It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.


Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:



Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Cub Driver wrote:

It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

(snip)

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.


Can you please be specific ... which of Bruce's statements were
factually incorrect?

In article ,
says...
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:



Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Cub Driver wrote:

It's getting awfully crowded down there (or up there, in terms of
latitude). No wonder the folks at McMurdo were so unfriendly to the
Kiwi who dropped in without enough fuel to reach his destination.

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

(snip)

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.


Can you please be specific ... which of Bruce's statements were
factually incorrect?

None of them.

--
Full featured open source Win32 newsreader - Gravity 2.70
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpgravity/

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:
Bruce Hamilton wrote:
Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.

Wow. Your detailed refutation clearly demonstrates your abilities, I'm
impressed. Just to help you get a clue, lonely as it may be, here's
some references from Antarctic New Zealand.

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...73-1-7,00.html
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...30-1-7,00.html

US and New Zealand officials said Johanson was ill-prepared to make
the polar flight and it was irresponsible for him to set out.

Antarctica New Zealand spokeswoman Shelly Peebles said US and New
Zealand authorities were being painted in a bad light but Johanson had
taken a very irresponsible approach.

She said he filed a flight plan just before he left but kept his South
Pole flight plan a secret because he knew both American and New
Zealand authorities would have stopped it.

"All our research points to the fact that this guy had one mission in
mind and that was to fly over the South Pole.

"He abdicated complete personal responsibility for any kind of
contingency plan or consideration of how he was going to get back with
limited fuel."

Bruce Hamilton

Bruce Hamilton wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:

Bruce Hamilton wrote:

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.


Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.


Wow. Your detailed refutation clearly demonstrates your abilities, I'm
impressed. Just to help you get a clue, lonely as it may be, here's
some references from Antarctic New Zealand.

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...73-1-7,00.html
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...30-1-7,00.html

US and New Zealand officials said Johanson was ill-prepared to make
the polar flight and it was irresponsible for him to set out.

Antarctica New Zealand spokeswoman Shelly Peebles said US and New
Zealand authorities were being painted in a bad light but Johanson had
taken a very irresponsible approach.

She said he filed a flight plan just before he left but kept his South
Pole flight plan a secret because he knew both American and New
Zealand authorities would have stopped it.

"All our research points to the fact that this guy had one mission in
mind and that was to fly over the South Pole.

"He abdicated complete personal responsibility for any kind of
contingency plan or consideration of how he was going to get back with
limited fuel."

Bruce Hamilton

And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:54:12 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:


Bruce Hamilton wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:

Bruce Hamilton wrote:

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.

Wow. Your detailed refutation clearly demonstrates your abilities, I'm
impressed. Just to help you get a clue, lonely as it may be, here's
some references from Antarctic New Zealand.
(snip)
And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

And you still have not added a single fact to the discussion to refute
Bruce's original position.

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.

Wow. Your detailed refutation clearly demonstrates your abilities, I'm
impressed. Just to help you get a clue, lonely as it may be, here's
some references from Antarctic New Zealand.
(snip)
And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

And you still have not added a single fact to the discussion to refute
Bruce's original position.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++


http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...73-1-7,00.html
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...30-1-7,00.html

FACTS ?????

Could be, but...

Anyone that uses hard copy media for anything more than lining
the bird cage, is more than just a few bricks short of a full load.


Barnyard BOb -- over 50 years of successful flight

In article .net,
says...


Bruce Hamilton wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:

Bruce Hamilton wrote:

Just to help your understanding of global political dynamics, the West Island
of New Zealand is where the pilot originated, and both the NZ and US base
refused to provide Avgas because:-

1. They didn't have any, and didn't want to give him Mogas.

2. He didn't seek advance permission to land at McMurdo ( as required ),
probably correctly assuming they would reject it, given his inadequate
planning.

3. He didn't organise logistic or search and rescue support in advance or take
notice of Antarctic station guidances - as did the British pilot who gave
him some of her contingency, as her well-planned expedition had been been
deferred.

4. He apparently wasn't carrying enough fuel for his stated objected, so
always intended to scavenge several hundred litres of fuel from a base. He
radioed the base on his southward journey saying he didn't have enough fuel,
but continued onto the point of no return and the South Pole anyway.


Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.


Wow. Your detailed refutation clearly demonstrates your abilities, I'm
impressed. Just to help you get a clue, lonely as it may be, here's
some references from Antarctic New Zealand.

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...73-1-7,00.html
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...30-1-7,00.html

US and New Zealand officials said Johanson was ill-prepared to make
the polar flight and it was irresponsible for him to set out.

Antarctica New Zealand spokeswoman Shelly Peebles said US and New
Zealand authorities were being painted in a bad light but Johanson had
taken a very irresponsible approach.

She said he filed a flight plan just before he left but kept his South
Pole flight plan a secret because he knew both American and New
Zealand authorities would have stopped it.

"All our research points to the fact that this guy had one mission in
mind and that was to fly over the South Pole.

"He abdicated complete personal responsibility for any kind of
contingency plan or consideration of how he was going to get back with
limited fuel."

Bruce Hamilton

And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

More factual than you, apparently.

The fields at McMurdo do not meet international aviation standards.
Flying in Antarctica is hazardous due to weather and other conditions.

The US and NZ bases do not require avgas because they fly only turbine
aircraft.

--
Full featured open source Win32 newsreader - Gravity 2.70
http://sourceforge.net/projects/mpgravity/

On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 18:54:12 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:
Bruce Hamilton wrote:
On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 15:55:58 GMT, Jerry Springer
wrote:
....
Once again another armchair quarterback that does not know what they are talking
about.
Wow. Your detailed refutation clearly demonstrates your abilities, I'm
impressed. Just to help you get a clue, lonely as it may be, here's
some references from Antarctic New Zealand.

http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...73-1-7,00.html
http://onenews.nzoom.com/onenews_det...30-1-7,00.html

And what the hell else do you expect them to say????

Your refutation of the data is where?. So far the score reads armchair
quarterback 5, plonker 0.

I think I'd believe the reported comments from a recognised
spokesperson for a reputable agency ( substantiated by various other
available commentary from other sources ) over an abusive poster on
Usenet who hasn't even provided one shred of evidence to counter the
information I provided.

Others have also asked for your information that shows the above
reports are incorrect. Incidently, I don't intend to accept Mr
Johanson's unsubtantiated views either - he claims he planned well
and was well prepared.

The clear evidence is that he wasn't, he ended up making an emergency
landing on an airfield, and publicly bad-mouthing the people there. He
put himself in that predicament, nobody else.

Bruce Hamilton