MS FS 2004 for Christmas...but the Kings are like some cruel lump of coal in the stocking :-)

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:Y93Ib.691356$Tr4.1722695@attbi_s03...
I use the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 and like it. While I'd
prefer to have a force feedback yoke, I haven't found one that I'd
consider
in the price range of a home system.

I'll "second" this choice. It's a great joystick, with pretty realistic
feedback.

I have a question & comment. Recently I purchased a Logitech WingMan
joystick for this exact same use - FS2004, IFR procedures, etc... I've
found the that 'haptic' or feel definitely adds something to the game,
but there are serious problems so I'm going to get something
different.

My question - do you have the same problems with the MS force feedback
stick?

Here are the problems I have:
1. The feedback feels somewhat like a ratchet... you can feel discrete
jumps almost like the throttle lever on old RC plane sticks.

2. The delay / latency causes the stick to jump all over when you take
your hand off. Basically - the FSim force effects (from airflow)
activate well after you move the stick in one direction. This causes
the stick to get a 'force' moving it to the opposite side. By the time
it gets there, the new control airflow-forces act on the stick causing
it to jump to the other side...

3. Basically - the latency is soo bad, that if you move the
aileron/elevator at Vno in a cessna (or any other speed), there is a
large (approx 1sec) delay on force feedback that ruins the illusion of
a real control. The force should be 'centering' in proportion to
speed.

Back to the original poster, I *strongly* recommend getting some kind
of joystick that includes throttle, rudder if you don't have pedals,
and several buttons and a hat switch (for panning/changing view). This
has made Fsim much more fun / easy to grasp.

-Noah

I received the MS Force Feedback 2 stick for Christmas and experienced
the same things you reported. I went looking for a solution on the
web and found one in FS Force from
http://www.dirks-software.ca/fs-force/
This add-on makes the forces much more realistic. You can try it out
to see if it works for you before you buy it.

--Bill

(noah) wrote in message . com...
"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:Y93Ib.691356$Tr4.1722695@attbi_s03...
I use the Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 and like it. While I'd
prefer to have a force feedback yoke, I haven't found one that I'd
consider
in the price range of a home system.

I'll "second" this choice. It's a great joystick, with pretty realistic
feedback.

I have a question & comment. Recently I purchased a Logitech WingMan
joystick for this exact same use - FS2004, IFR procedures, etc... I've
found the that 'haptic' or feel definitely adds something to the game,
but there are serious problems so I'm going to get something
different.

My question - do you have the same problems with the MS force feedback
stick?

Here are the problems I have:
1. The feedback feels somewhat like a ratchet... you can feel discrete
jumps almost like the throttle lever on old RC plane sticks.

2. The delay / latency causes the stick to jump all over when you take
your hand off. Basically - the FSim force effects (from airflow)
activate well after you move the stick in one direction. This causes
the stick to get a 'force' moving it to the opposite side. By the time
it gets there, the new control airflow-forces act on the stick causing
it to jump to the other side...

3. Basically - the latency is soo bad, that if you move the
aileron/elevator at Vno in a cessna (or any other speed), there is a
large (approx 1sec) delay on force feedback that ruins the illusion of
a real control. The force should be 'centering' in proportion to
speed.

Back to the original poster, I *strongly* recommend getting some kind
of joystick that includes throttle, rudder if you don't have pedals,
and several buttons and a hat switch (for panning/changing view). This
has made Fsim much more fun / easy to grasp.

-Noah

(noah)
My question - do you have the same problems with the MS force feedback
stick?

I bought the Logitech Wingman Force Feedback to replace my MS (none force
feedback -- but the one where you can also twist the stick to control
the rudders -- the new PC didn't have a game port, and a converter
cost more than what I paid for the new joystick); well, although I find
the thing fun in other games, I disable the force feedback feature in MS
Flight Sim (I don't have the 2004 version though, still using the 2002
version but I reckon it makes no difference); I find the feature more
annoying than anything else (in real life you do have to take your
hand off the controls one in a while to deal with charts and stuff, but
you can't with the FF thingy switched on as the stick goes wild);

but then again, I might be missing something (better set up of the
control in the flight sim? any suggestion?)

--Sylvain

"Sylvain" wrote in message
om...
(noah)
I disable the force feedback feature in MS
Flight Sim (I don't have the 2004 version though, still using the 2002
version but I reckon it makes no difference); I find the feature more
annoying than anything else (in real life you do have to take your
hand off the controls one in a while to deal with charts and stuff, but
you can't with the FF thingy switched on as the stick goes wild);

but then again, I might be missing something (better set up of the
control in the flight sim? any suggestion?)

I'm using the MS Sidewinder FF2 joystick with FS2004, default FF settings,
and there's no problem with letting go of the controls. I'm not sure why
yours differs, but that's not how it should be.

--Gary