FAA: 157 airspace violations since 9/11

Considering how restrictions pop up without warning, I'm not surpised:

WASHINGTON (CNN) --Since the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001,
and despite heightened security, 157 planes have violated airspace
over presidential residences, CNN has learned.

I know this isn't what many of you want to hear, but dang it, it's got to be
said: This sloppy aviating has GOT to stop.

Either WE, as pilots, figure this problem out, or THEY, as the government,
will "figure it out" for us. The Feds are not going to let these
violations continue forever -- if for no other reason than the general
public won't stand for it.

And THAT will mean an end to the freedom of the skies we have so long
enjoyed.

Note that these violations did NOT occur over the controversial "national
pop-up TFRs" we all know and hate. These happened over the President's
residences! It doesn't matter if it's a "pop-up" TFR -- call Flight Service
before every flight. If they tell you that there are NO TFRs along your
route of flight, and you get busted in one that *they* didn't know about,
I'll bet you the keys to the Mighty Grape you won't be violated.

Anyone who lives near the President's residences, and DOESN'T call flight
service before every flight, should have their certificate revoked for
stupidity.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:eTlJb.732811$Fm2.637066@attbi_s04

Note that these violations did NOT occur over the controversial
"national pop-up TFRs" we all know and hate. These happened over the
President's residences!

Keep in mind that even though airspace over Camp David (P40), for example,
is charted and well known, it can be expanded with little notice (i.e.,
become a "pop-up TFR"). The same goes for Crawford, TX. Just because it's
charted doesn't mean that's the size of the airspace on any particular day.

That in no way is meant to undermine your proposition regarding folks
knowingly flying in the vicinity of Washington, DC and Crawford, TX without
at least a call to FSS or a check of DUAT(S).

--
John T
http://tknowlogy.com/TknoFlyer
http://www.pocketgear.com/products_s...veloperid=4415
____________________

Keep in mind that even though airspace over Camp David (P40), for example,
is charted and well known, it can be expanded with little notice

I know. It's a real, *known* problem.

The problem is, it ISN'T apparently "known" by as many pilots as we would
like to believe.

I can only shake my head in disbelief that 157 pilots could make such a
mistake -- it makes us all look ridiculous. I mean, this isn't Mayor
Daley's suburban Chicago house, for chrissakes, this is the PRESIDENT'S
residence. Even us bumpkin pilots from Ioway know where THOSE are, and
surely any pilot should be able to steer a wide berth around 'em.

I fear we're heading for a huge problem with this issue... :-(
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:PNmJb.733077$Fm2.638775@attbi_s04...
Keep in mind that even though airspace over Camp David (P40), for
example,
is charted and well known, it can be expanded with little notice

I know. It's a real, *known* problem.

The problem is, it ISN'T apparently "known" by as many pilots as we would
like to believe.

I can only shake my head in disbelief that 157 pilots could make such a
mistake -- it makes us all look ridiculous. I mean, this isn't Mayor
Daley's suburban Chicago house, for chrissakes, this is the PRESIDENT'S
residence. Even us bumpkin pilots from Ioway know where THOSE are, and
surely any pilot should be able to steer a wide berth around 'em.

I fear we're heading for a huge problem with this issue... :-(

Jay

It seems obvious to us but.......
Console yourself, these peoples vote count as much as yours, I wonder
whether they can tie their shoelaces by themselves too.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message news:PNmJb.733077$Fm2.638775@attbi_s04...

I can only shake my head in disbelief that 157 pilots could make such a
mistake -- it makes us all look ridiculous. I mean, this isn't Mayor
Daley's suburban Chicago house, for chrissakes, this is the PRESIDENT'S
residence. Even us bumpkin pilots from Ioway know where THOSE are, and
surely any pilot should be able to steer a wide berth around 'em.

OK, Jay....I'll make you a deal. I'll dump you out between HGR and MRB and
you tell me where P40 is. No fair using the GPS.

OK, Jay....I'll make you a deal. I'll dump you out between HGR and MRB
and
you tell me where P40 is. No fair using the GPS.

Although I suspect I could figure it out with my VORs (assuming they still
work -- we haven't turned 'em on in a few months), why would it be "no fair"
using the best navigational tool in my plane?

Or are you implying that the 157 pilots who flew over the President's homes
didn't have access to GPS?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message news:3ff6048d$0$32330

OK, Jay....I'll make you a deal. I'll dump you out between HGR and MRB
and
you tell me where P40 is. No fair using the GPS.


I would say that if you fly arount those areas, you should get., and use
GPS......or steer a
wide berth.

I agree with Jay. A few are going to screw it up for all of us, if no
changes are made.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message ...

I would say that if you fly arount those areas, you should get., and use
GPS......or steer a
wide berth.

I agree with Jay. A few are going to screw it up for all of us, if no
changes are made.

I could be mistaken, but I think Ron's point was that the area
in question is a pure "paper boundry", where there are very
few natural landmarks to guide the pilot. And GPS isn't infalliable.
The expanded TFR isn't necessarily in the database as restricted
airspace. Its centroid may not be in there as a waypoint. And
while the savvy GPS-using pilot can add both, depending upon the
model of GPS it may not be easy to display the addition while
using the GPS to navigate. So if you're navigating by GPS, you
may need to figure out the boundry by some other means (visually
or by VORs).

I concur that changes need to be made, but I think some of the
needed changes involve charting and database changes, or changes
to the way TFRs are defined to make them easier to identify
visually. Unfortunately, even pilot interest groups hesitate to
lobby for such changes because they're afraid that charting,
database, and boundry changes would simply codify the "temporary"
TFRs and make them more likely to become permanent.

Cheers,
Sydney

Snowbird wrote:

I could be mistaken, but I think Ron's point was that the area
in question is a pure "paper boundry", where there are very
few natural landmarks to guide the pilot. And GPS isn't infalliable.

Neither are the pilots of the interceptors, nor the ATC personel, but if *they*
make a mistake, it's still the GA pilot who gets charged. The last time this
came up, it became apparent that many, if not most, of the violations were not
the fault of a GA pilot.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

In article , Ron
Natalie wrote:

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:PNmJb.733077$Fm2.638775@attbi_s04...

I can only shake my head in disbelief that 157 pilots could make such a
mistake -- it makes us all look ridiculous. I mean, this isn't Mayor
Daley's suburban Chicago house, for chrissakes, this is the PRESIDENT'S
residence. Even us bumpkin pilots from Ioway know where THOSE are, and
surely any pilot should be able to steer a wide berth around 'em.

OK, Jay....I'll make you a deal. I'll dump you out between HGR and MRB and
you tell me where P40 is. No fair using the GPS.


Well that's not quite fair, Ron. Pilots are not "dumped out" into an
area. They fly into an area. If I was flying between HGR and MRB I'd
dial in the FDK 325 radial and remain west of it. P-40 is not hard to
avoid, even without GPS. There are a half dozen VOR's around it. This
should not be a hard thing to do for a competant pilot. If you are
flying NORDO you should be aware of landmarks in the area and give the
restricted area an extra wide berth. AOPA has been diligent about
posting the P-40 expansions and they are normally issued days before
they occur. I agree with Jay, there is no excuse for violating these
areas nowadays.