Seneca down at Avalon

On 7 Jan 2004 12:33:57 -0800 (Snowbird) wrote:

"R. Hubbell" wrote in message news:pMLKb.102181$pY.83466@fed1read04...

I wonder about having pax when shooting approaches. Seems like a pretty big
distraction while learning. Do the FARs prohibit pax while IFR training?

No, not at all, and in fact some viewpoints think it's a good
idea to take flight students of various flavors along, esp.
instrument students, both for learning by observation and as
an extra set of safety-pilot eyes.

That makes sense.


Something strange about this, though -- are the TERPS really
right on this approach? Climb from 2,100 ft to 3,200 ft to
clear a 2,090 ft mountain -- shouldn't there be 2000 ft of
obstacle clearance over a mountain? Also is there an obstacle
DP for departure from that runway? Seems like going missed
after the MAP would require a non-standard climb gradient,
as would a departure?

Very sad accident

Yes, for sure.


R. Hubbell


Cheers,
Sydney

I'm an IFR student working on my Rating.
(Check ride scheduled in 12 days)

Early on I used microsoft flight simulator to fly an approach to
almost every airport in So Cal.

AXV is the only one where I crashed.
I caught a glimpse of the runway out of the "virtual" window,
while trying to circle ito land I hit the same mountain in about the
same place.

It got my attention.








On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:25:04 -0800, "R. Hubbell"
wrote:

On 7 Jan 2004 12:33:57 -0800 (Snowbird) wrote:

"R. Hubbell" wrote in message news:pMLKb.102181$pY.83466@fed1read04...

I wonder about having pax when shooting approaches. Seems like a pretty big
distraction while learning. Do the FARs prohibit pax while IFR training?

No, not at all, and in fact some viewpoints think it's a good
idea to take flight students of various flavors along, esp.
instrument students, both for learning by observation and as
an extra set of safety-pilot eyes.

That makes sense.


Something strange about this, though -- are the TERPS really
right on this approach? Climb from 2,100 ft to 3,200 ft to
clear a 2,090 ft mountain -- shouldn't there be 2000 ft of
obstacle clearance over a mountain? Also is there an obstacle
DP for departure from that runway? Seems like going missed
after the MAP would require a non-standard climb gradient,
as would a departure?

Very sad accident

Yes, for sure.


R. Hubbell


Cheers,
Sydney

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 20:31:00 -0800 wrote:

I'm an IFR student working on my Rating.
(Check ride scheduled in 12 days)

Early on I used microsoft flight simulator to fly an approach to
almost every airport in So Cal.

AXV is the only one where I crashed.
I caught a glimpse of the runway out of the "virtual" window,
while trying to circle ito land I hit the same mountain in about the
same place.

It got my attention.


What caused you to crash? What were the factors that led to your
"virtual crash"?

I wonder if the NTSB ever fires up a simulator to try to answer
questions in an investgation?

R. Hubbell









On Wed, 7 Jan 2004 14:25:04 -0800, "R. Hubbell"
wrote:

On 7 Jan 2004 12:33:57 -0800 (Snowbird) wrote:

"R. Hubbell" wrote in message news:pMLKb.102181$pY.83466@fed1read04...

I wonder about having pax when shooting approaches. Seems like a pretty big
distraction while learning. Do the FARs prohibit pax while IFR training?

No, not at all, and in fact some viewpoints think it's a good
idea to take flight students of various flavors along, esp.
instrument students, both for learning by observation and as
an extra set of safety-pilot eyes.

That makes sense.


Something strange about this, though -- are the TERPS really
right on this approach? Climb from 2,100 ft to 3,200 ft to
clear a 2,090 ft mountain -- shouldn't there be 2000 ft of
obstacle clearance over a mountain? Also is there an obstacle
DP for departure from that runway? Seems like going missed
after the MAP would require a non-standard climb gradient,
as would a departure?

Very sad accident

Yes, for sure.


R. Hubbell


Cheers,
Sydney

What caused you to crash? What were the factors that led to your
"virtual crash"?

Circled the wrong way.
Started down as soon as I saw the airport.
Lost sight of the Airporrt in the descent and did not immediatly start
the missed.

Started the missed late and too low.

On Wed, 07 Jan 2004 21:40:38 -0800, wrote in
Message-Id: :


What caused you to crash? What were the factors that led to your
"virtual crash"?

Circled the wrong way.

Which way would have been the right way? Circling approaches
southeast of runway 4-22 are specifically prohibited in that approach
procedure.

Started down as soon as I saw the airport.

What was your position relative to the MAP when you sighted the
runway?

Lost sight of the Airporrt in the descent and did not immediatly start
the missed.

Did you start your descent from 2,100'? How low did you get?

Started the missed late and too low.

I can see where that would not be a good thing on this approach.

[rec.aviation.ifr added]