Capt. Al Haynes sorta OT.

"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote in message
...
Paul Sengupta wrote:

"TTA Cherokee Driver" wrote in message
...


they often cite "170 days a week..."

Even that is not accurate, when stated correctly. In NC, we have students
for 180 days, with 20 more added for planning and training.
--
Jim in NC--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Richard Hertz" wrote

Thank you - someone with real numbers. I have done similar
investigating
here and the differential for salaries here on Long Island NY is also
not
as
bad as teachers complain. While taxpayers are facing layoffs and no
raises,
the school districts around here are still doing the usual raises.
**************************************************

New York isn't NC, or many of the other states.

New York isn't a grapefruit either. What the hell has that got to do with
anything?


What is the rank of NY, in relation to the whole country, Richard?

Rank in what?


I'm not going to bother to look it up, since it will not change your mind.
I've made my invitation, to you, and any others. Come to NC and teach math
or science. You said you were changing careers. Put your money where your
mouth is. Until then shut up. Back up those claims. Good luck with you
being one of the 60k earners! It shouldn't be any risk, if you are so
sure
of your claims.

I can care less about the salary, I am going in it for the benefits and the
vacation. I don;t need the money.



Figures lie, and liars figure. Come live the life.

Oh, by the way, how many of those 50 - 60k teachers had doctorates? What
would a doctorate of psychology make in the same area? It is about the
same
level of education.

Doctors of psych? I doubt they make much. Not worth the degree, that is
for sure.


I'm done defending teachers. We don't deserve the bashing, and surely
don't
need it..

I am not bashing teachers - there is nothing to defend. I am going to be
one. What I am trying to point out is that teachers are paid fairly.

--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Richard Hertz" wrote in message
. net...
I would be happy to. I am qualified to teach math. I don't see what
all
the fuss is about.

So you have not taught , even for a year yet?

No - Just substitute teaching in publlic and private schools.


Granted the pay is less than other jobs, but the benefits far outweigh
the
difference in pay.

Hardly. Live on the pay of two teachers, send 2 or more kids to college,
and drive less than 10 year old vehicles, and then come back and tell me
haw
the benifits out weigh the lack of pay. Don't forget that every year,
your
dollar earned will not keep up with inflation.

Ahh, now we get to it - the cars (and other spending) are the issues
financially. I have never driven a car that was made within 10 years of my
owning it. I live within my means and am able to budget. The benefits
a - retirement that is second to very few occupations - health insurace
the same, and I know of few jobs in this economy where people are keeping up
with inflation. My raise the past two years in the IT industry has been 1%
each year. The benefits (in my priority system a Over 13 weeks of time
off and health benefits and pensions. To some that might not be enough, but
after being in the IT world I have changed priorities and money is less
important than free time. (I also want to teach as I am appalled at the bad
education I see around me and want to help fix it. My tutoring, while
admittedly harly qualifies as insight into my ability to teach classes, has
been rewarding for me and the kids I help.


I am not wrong about the supply of teachers. I know many - some
friends,
other family. I also know administrators whom have told me about the
local
supply/demand.

Not in MY state, or most of the country.

Hmm, I see many many people qualified to teach English, SS, grade school,
etc. the only shortage appears to be in math and science.


I agree there is a shortage of math/science

Then there is a shortage.

Then those salaries should be raised to meet market demand.


but the ridiculous gov't system
won't budge on silly school credentials to teach, so I have to go
through
the BS of a Masters and get "education" education before I can teach.

In NC, you can start teaching tomorrow, and take the required corses as
you
go.

Thanks for the info. I might consider a move down there.


And also, are you so smug, as to think you have nothing to learn about
the
buisness of education? School law, liability, discipline, motivational
techniques, lesson planning, pacing guides, government program
implementations, advanced learners, slow learners, and the list goes on.
You really need to know about all of that, and more. You can no more jump
into teaching and be successful, than you could jump into a plane, take
off,
do a cross country, end up where you want to be, and land successfully.

No, I am not that smug, but I have serious doubts about many of the
professional educators who have dumbed down NY state's curriculum and
constantly teach for tests, and spend money on "technology" while the kids'
basic educations are forgotten. From my experience I think I would choose a
private school over a public school.



Come to NC. We really do need lateral entry math teachers. You might
learn something in the process, and theer is a small chance the students
could, too.

Nice backhanded compliment.

--
Jim in NC

I have done research about this and would not be changing careers if I
hadn't. It is a sweet deal that teachers have - trust me.



"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Richard Hertz" wrote

The bottom line is - there are plenty of qualified people lined up
to
take
the teaching jobs at the current salary levels.

You are so far out in left field, I only will make a couple comments.
You
are completely wrong about the supply of teachers. Perhaps there are
surplus numbers in elementary and humanities, but it is almost
impossible
to
find science and math teachers who are well qualified, and gets harder
every
year.

Teacher's salaries have grown at under the cost of living, under
inflation,
and has meant less disposable income, even when taking into account
pay
raises for each years service. Not too many professions can claim
that
proud distinction.

Come take my teaching job. See how you like it. You won't last a
year.
--
Jim in NC

"Margy Natalie" wrote

"Many true tidbits"

Margy, some people have been told by the media that the problems in
education are all the school's fault for so long, they believe it.

The situation is as bad as the poor reporting about aviation by the media,
and the general public is as poorly educated, and believes all the
mis-information they hear.

When you look at the students with good parents, with firm discipline, who
make sure the studies are number one, you see students who excel. John Q.
Publick thinks we should educate everyone to the same level, no matter the
IQ. or the devotion to learning. He will never think we deserve a raise or
better support until the results.

They need to look at the student to see where the problem is, but that
will never happen. You are wasting your breath.

John Q, tell us how to make the student care, and have the desire to be more
than mediocre. Do that, and scores will come. If you think we have bad
teachers, get the wages up so the best don't leave; then we can work on
getting the few "bad teachers" up to standard. It can't work the other way,
because there is no one any better to take their place. See the catch 22?

"Richard Hertz" wrote in message
. net...
I would be happy to. I am qualified to teach math. I don't see what all
the fuss is about.

So you have not taught , even for a year yet?

Granted the pay is less than other jobs, but the benefits far outweigh the
difference in pay.

Hardly. Live on the pay of two teachers, send 2 or more kids to college,
and drive less than 10 year old vehicles, and then come back and tell me haw
the benifits out weigh the lack of pay. Don't forget that every year, your
dollar earned will not keep up with inflation.

I am not wrong about the supply of teachers. I know many - some friends,
other family. I also know administrators whom have told me about the
local
supply/demand.

Not in MY state, or most of the country.

I agree there is a shortage of math/science

Then there is a shortage.

but the ridiculous gov't system
won't budge on silly school credentials to teach, so I have to go through
the BS of a Masters and get "education" education before I can teach.

In NC, you can start teaching tomorrow, and take the required corses as you
go.

And also, are you so smug, as to think you have nothing to learn about the
buisness of education? School law, liability, discipline, motivational
techniques, lesson planning, pacing guides, government program
implementations, advanced learners, slow learners, and the list goes on.
You really need to know about all of that, and more. You can no more jump
into teaching and be successful, than you could jump into a plane, take off,
do a cross country, end up where you want to be, and land successfully.

Come to NC. We really do need lateral entry math teachers. You might
learn something in the process, and theer is a small chance the students
could, too.
--
Jim in NC

I have done research about this and would not be changing careers if I
hadn't. It is a sweet deal that teachers have - trust me.



"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Richard Hertz" wrote

The bottom line is - there are plenty of qualified people lined up to
take
the teaching jobs at the current salary levels.

You are so far out in left field, I only will make a couple comments.
You
are completely wrong about the supply of teachers. Perhaps there are
surplus numbers in elementary and humanities, but it is almost
impossible
to
find science and math teachers who are well qualified, and gets harder
every
year.

Teacher's salaries have grown at under the cost of living, under
inflation,
and has meant less disposable income, even when taking into account pay
raises for each years service. Not too many professions can claim that
proud distinction.

Come take my teaching job. See how you like it. You won't last a year.
--
Jim in NC

"Richard Hertz" wrote

Thank you - someone with real numbers. I have done similar investigating
here and the differential for salaries here on Long Island NY is also not
as
bad as teachers complain. While taxpayers are facing layoffs and no
raises,
the school districts around here are still doing the usual raises.
**************************************************

New York isn't NC, or many of the other states.

What is the rank of NY, in relation to the whole country, Richard?

I'm not going to bother to look it up, since it will not change your mind.
I've made my invitation, to you, and any others. Come to NC and teach math
or science. You said you were changing careers. Put your money where your
mouth is. Until then shut up. Back up those claims. Good luck with you
being one of the 60k earners! It shouldn't be any risk, if you are so sure
of your claims.

Figures lie, and liars figure. Come live the life.

Oh, by the way, how many of those 50 - 60k teachers had doctorates? What
would a doctorate of psychology make in the same area? It is about the same
level of education.

I'm done defending teachers. We don't deserve the bashing, and surely don't
need it..
--
Jim in NC

"G.R. Patterson III" wrote in message
...


Newps wrote:

Turns out the average
teacher salary is $41.5 here with 25-30% of the teachers making more
than $50K per year.

Fifteen years ago, the figures for the Franklin Township high school were
made
public. The janitor was making more than a CS major with a master's degree
would
get as starting pay ($41,000). The school had two principals, both making
over
$110,000. Teachers salaries were in the $70,000 range and up.

They don't publicize the figures any more.

They also stopped publishing stats around the country when someone pointed
out that half or more of school spending was just "administrators"....like
third assistant vice-principals.

Margy Natalie wrote:

REALLY?!?!? Send them to Northern VA where we had lots of unfilled positions
last year with subs filling in. For quite a while 1/3 of our special ed teachers
were on emergengy certificates. We can't find enough teachers to fill the rooms.

Well maybe that's your problem then: you're supposed to fill the rooms with
STUDENTS plus ONE teacher. :-)

On a different subject, I was considering having Harbor Freight drop ship a bunch
of the cheap stuff (like the $3 voltmeters) to some worthy school science
departments. Know of any such departments? Know what's on their wish lists?

Russell Kent

Newps wrote:

Turns out the average
teacher salary is $41.5 here with 25-30% of the teachers making more
than $50K per year.

Fifteen years ago, the figures for the Franklin Township high school were made
public. The janitor was making more than a CS major with a master's degree would
get as starting pay ($41,000). The school had two principals, both making over
$110,000. Teachers salaries were in the $70,000 range and up.

They don't publicize the figures any more.

George Patterson
Great discoveries are not announced with "Eureka!". What's usually said is
"Hummmmm... That's interesting...."

Government pensions are good because government work pays less. The
good pensions are the compensation for working for less.

Dunno what government jobs YOU are looking at -- but around here, the
Gubmint jobs pay substantially MORE than their private sector equivalents.

Just one example: A secretary at the University of Iowa can easily clear
$40K per year -- AND have the best health care and retirement I've ever
seen, anywhere.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"