non-towered airport question

Last things first...I prefer grass to paved in taildraggers as well. Ref the
into-the-wind vs crosswind question, the answer is obviously to land into
the wind...I would go so far as to say "Piper 12345 on final, runway 21,
into the wind" just to get the message across.

Balanced field length applies to jets.

I guess I read more into your original post than was there...I had this
mental picture of a bunch of folks using one runway while you used another,
which is your right to do. I still see it as a learning situation for any
students in the pattern, because they are just learning what a pattern is,
how it relates to the runway in use, etc and are not far enough into the
game to understand why doing something else might be preferable.

Bob

"Snowbird" wrote in message
m...
"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
news:KAIMb.37603$8H.86299@attbi_s03...
No holds barred at an uncontrolled airport...but we all have to get
along
together. If the preponderance of the traffic was using the short, my
feeling is that you should have joined them or gone somewhere else.
Student
pilots (and I have to assume one or two in the pattern) have enough to
be
concerned about without someone doing the unexpected. This applies to
the
CFI flying with the student as well....although this is a learning
experience: "Look at that guy! What he is doing is legal, but not smart.
Keep your eyes on a swivel and expect the unexpected!!!"

Well, I dunno what you consider "preponderance". When I arrived,
there was one chap who announced for the other runway, no other
observed traffic. He said "full stop", which led me to think he
was landing and tieing down and it didn't make much difference. I
realized after he took off again, he was just trying to differentiate
from "touch and go", and I'm not sure what he could have said which
would have made his intention to land and taxi back for continued
pattern work clear. "full stop, continued pattern work" might have
done it.

A second airplane which showed up said the same thing "full stop"
which again, led me to think he was landing and taxiing to his hangar,
not planning to taxi back and do pattern work.

After it was clear what they were doing and a third airplane called
in, I called them a preponderance and I did join them.

Frankly Bob and meaning no disrespect, if you're telling your
students this is unexpected or "not smart", you might be doing
them a disservice IMHO. I can remember my initial CFIs saying
similar things, and it led me to have a little "attitide" about
what people "ought" to do which later, more experienced CFIs
squelched, pointing out there are sometimes good reasons.

I used to be based at that airport, and twins regularly use the
longer runway while singles are on the shorter runway, because it
gives them more options -- I'm not a multi pilot, but I read about
"balanced runway length" and yadda yadda, so I assume most multi
pilots think it's smart to use a 3500 ft runway instead of a 2000
ft runway when it's available.

OTOH, if there's a kicking crosswind, is it smart for a Piper
pilot to just join the pattern with the long runway at a wind
level maybe he's not comfortable with, or to space himself
properly and land into the wind? I think one could argue the
latter as "smart".

At my home airport, many of the antiques and taildraggers prefer
to land on grass. So they'll use the grass runway even if the
wind favors the paved or is "6 of one half a dozen of the other".
I'm not a taildragger pilot either, but I assume some taildragger
pilots would think it's smart to land on grass if there's an Xwind
either way and the pilot/plane is more comfortable on grass.

In any case, it's common enough that I think it has to be considered
"expected".

Sydney

"Bob Gardner" wrote in message news:GyVMb.43941$5V2.61806@attbi_s53...
I guess I read more into your original post than was there...I had this
mental picture of a bunch of folks using one runway while you used another,
which is your right to do.

Well, that is what wound up happening, but it wasn't so clear-cut
as several planes established in the pattern when I arrived.

It was very clear that the wind favored the runway they were using.

I still see it as a learning situation for any
students in the pattern

That's definately true, and I probably wasn't clear enough
about my point so let me try to restate it in a better way.

As a student, I had instructors say similar things to me along the
lines of "this isn't what a pilot ought to do, it isn't smart, but
it will happen so you need to watch for it". And I was very nervous
when I was in the pattern and other aircraft arrived and used a
different runway.

As a private pilot, one of the instructors I worked with
drew the traffic patterns for the two runways and we worked
our way around them with what altitude a plane would likely
be at at each point, and identified where the conflict
points were. It quickly became clear that barring unusual
behavior like a chap turning at 200 AGL, there are only a
couple of conflict points and they can readily be avoided
with a bit of care. So after that it was a matter of "OK,
when this happens, this is what I watch for and this is how
I should time it" and it was much less stressful to me.

I'm still less comfortable with our new home airport because
both runways have right traffic in one direction and left in
the other, and there are more potential conflict points so
it's not as clear to me how to time it.

That's what I meant when I said perhaps it's doing the students
a disservice to tell them it's unexpected and not smart. I'm
know you're right that they need to focus on the basics of what
is a pattern and what they should be doing when, but I think
it's a common enough situation that they should just be prepared
to watch for it and meet it.

Best,
Sydney