Quick question about an incident which happend today

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote:
Oh, and most importantly, never, never, never talk to atc
unless you are absolutely forced to do so...They are
NOT your friend...

Dang, Denny, that's pretty harsh.

I don't share your view, but you've got a lot more time than I, so I
must suppose you base that opinion on experience. Care to share it?
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM
(remove pants to reply by email)

Dan Luke wrote:

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote:
Oh, and most importantly, never, never, never talk to atc

unless you are absolutely forced to do so...They are
NOT your friend...


Dang, Denny, that's pretty harsh.

I don't share your view, but you've got a lot more time than I, so I
must suppose you base that opinion on experience. Care to share it?


No he doesn't, that's just ignorance.

Uhhh, don't have anything to share, Dan... Never had any kind of a dust up
with them, and I firmly intend to keep it that way - especially, now that
they are in their post 9/11 hang the GA *******s, mode...
However, some six decades of watching other poor *******s give up their
ticket has been enlightening...

First, I flew when talking to anyone on the radio was a special event...
And I managed to blunder my way around the country without their 'help' and
I still can... Second, ATC is of no use to a VFR flight, so putting yor
tail number in the front of their minds is a no win scenario for you - you
don't get an attaboy for not making an error, and you get hung if they even
suspect that was you who clipped their airspace...
Third, the airspace has become so complex, especially with TFR's popping up
all over the place every time some sports team decides to play, or some
promoter puts on an auto race, that your odds of breaking the "rules" is way
higher than you can calculate...

Example: The controller will not tell you that XYZ University is playing
that day he doesn't have a clue as you blithely fly overhead with vfr
flight following, but he will use your recorded radar track/tail-number to
hang you after the fact - so why in the heck, would you deliberately set
yourself up like that? It boggles my mind... Do you also sit on your seat
belt and pet rattlesnakes?

denny

"Dan Luke" wrote in I
must suppose you base that opinion on experience. Care to share it?

"Dennis O'Connor" wrote in message
...

Uhhh, don't have anything to share, Dan... Never had any kind of a dust
up
with them, and I firmly intend to keep it that way - especially, now that
they are in their post 9/11 hang the GA *******s, mode...
However, some six decades of watching other poor *******s give up their
ticket has been enlightening...

First, I flew when talking to anyone on the radio was a special event...
And I managed to blunder my way around the country without their 'help'
and
I still can... Second, ATC is of no use to a VFR flight, so putting yor
tail number in the front of their minds is a no win scenario for you - you
don't get an attaboy for not making an error, and you get hung if they
even
suspect that was you who clipped their airspace...
Third, the airspace has become so complex, especially with TFR's popping
up
all over the place every time some sports team decides to play, or some
promoter puts on an auto race, that your odds of breaking the "rules" is
way
higher than you can calculate...

Example: The controller will not tell you that XYZ University is playing
that day he doesn't have a clue as you blithely fly overhead with vfr
flight following, but he will use your recorded radar track/tail-number to
hang you after the fact - so why in the heck, would you deliberately set
yourself up like that? It boggles my mind... Do you also sit on your
seat
belt and pet rattlesnakes?


How is it you were able to fly so long and learn so little about aviation?

This idea that ATC guys are "out to hang you" or are "not your friend" is just
false in my experience. These guys at the other end of the radio are terrific
.. . . have saved my ass more than once, and I have even done photography for
some of them here in NY.

I don't know how it is where you are, Dennis . . . but here in NY, if you
conduct yourself like a pro, you are treated like one.

The guys and gals in the towers and Tracon ARE our friends when we're working.
They provide first class service.
JMO, worth no more nor less than my allotted .02.


www.Rosspilot.com

Rosspilot wrote:

The guys and gals in the towers and Tracon ARE our friends when we're
working. They provide first class service.
JMO, worth no more nor less than my allotted .02.

I was flying over EWR a couple of days ago. ATC was downright friendly to
all the aircraft in the air. The controller, the DC-10 pilot, and I all
expressed amazement that a DC-10 at 4000 would manage to overtake my
Skyhawk at 5000, for example.

I cancelled down south to do a little site-seeing before landing, and the
controller volunteered to stay with me in an advisories mode.

I suspect my wife believes now that IFR/FF is just an excuse for a party
line.

- Andrew

I have to agree with Lee on this one as the controllers in my area are also
EXCELLENT! On one short x-c flight in some haze, I received a traffic
advisory that another aircraft was at 12:00 my altitude, approx. one mile.
While this particular call was later than most, I didn't see the traffic.
Immediately after I head my traffic advisory, I descended and turned. After
about 30 degrees to the right and 200 feet lower, I saw the traffic.
Probably the closest call I've had and I'm not so sure that without flight
following I would have seen the other plane in time.

Sorry Denny but I have to disagree with you. I don't believe ATC is out to
get me.

--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

If the visual conditions are such that you cannot see another aircraft in
time to avoid a crash on your own, then it is not truely VFR conditions, now
is it? Time to air file an IFR flight plan and get the man to put green
between you and the bogies... That is ATC's mission...

As far as that call being late - Be aware, when you are vfr, ATC services
are on a time permitting basis... The fact that he called that traffic for
you is nice, but if he had an IFR traffic conflict, or internal phone lines
handing off sector traffic, taking his time you might not have gotten the
call at all - and there you sat all warm and fuzzy, feeling like daddy was
watching over you...

I'm not going to keep beating on the topic because I have made my points...
I like controllers just fine - they are mostly straight up folks, and the
lady atc in the Atlanta sector have downright sexy voices - but you have to
understand the system, and you have to understand human nature, or the
system will eat you...
denny

"Jack Allison" Sorry Denny but I have
to disagree with you. I don't believe ATC is out to
get me.

and there you sat all warm and fuzzy, feeling like daddy was
watching over you...

Dang, you assume a lot don't you Denny? Where'd you get that? Whenever on
VFR flight following, I *NEVER* put the Mark-I eyeballs on the back burner.
Just because you don't agree with me, don't assume.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)