Camel

"vincent p. norris" wrote:

Yeah, I've heard and read that many times. The same was said about WW
II.

I've never heard that about WWII, but, in any case, it's not true. A couple things
*were* true about the WWII situation until about 1944; 1) pilots destroyed more
aircraft during training than during combat, and 2) most of the pilots in a given
class would not survive the war.

Just finished a book about LeRoy Grover, who enlisted in the RAF in 1941. Flew Spits
before transfering to the USAAF and finishing the war in P-47s. His preliminary
instruction was done in California. Slightly over half of his class survived the war,
but most did not become fighter pilots. Instruction in Spitfires was done at an OTU
in England. There were several crashes every day, and fatalities ran about 1 every 3
days. Of his class there of 42 pilots who graduated, 3 survived the war intact, 3
survived but were injured so badly they never flew again, and the rest were killed.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.

I've never heard that about WWII, but, in any case, it's not true. A couple things
*were* true about the WWII situation until about 1944; 1) pilots destroyed more
aircraft during training than during combat....

How do you know that? I find that hard to believe.

and 2) most of the pilots in a given class would not survive the war.

I can't believe that either, George. That means that fatalities
among pilots exeeded 50 percent.

Just finished a book about LeRoy Grover, who enlisted in the RAF in 1941. Flew Spits
before transfering to the USAAF and finishing the war in P-47s. His preliminary
instruction was done in California.

I don't understand that. Do you mean he was trained by, or for, the
RAF in California in 1941? I've never heard of such an operation.

Slightly over half of his class survived the war....

I can believe that losses were quite high among pilots who fought
through the entire war. OTOH, they were much lower among those who
got into combat only a month or two before VE or VJ day.

There were several crashes every day, and fatalities ran about 1 every 3
days. Of his class there of 42 pilots who graduated, 3 survived the war intact, 3
survived but were injured so badly they never flew again, and the rest were killed.

Ensign Gay, of Torpedo 8, could write that he was the only survivor of
his entire squadron; all the others were killed in just a few minutes,
in June 1942. You know that wasn't typical of U.S. Naval Aviators.

And as you may know, something like 98 percent of the residents of
Bedford, Virginia, who served in the army during WW II, were killed
in action on one day in June, 1944.

These cases demonstrate that you can't generalize from a small sample.

vince norris

"vincent p. norris" wrote:

I can't believe that either, George. That means that fatalities
among pilots exeeded 50 percent.

That's correct for fighter pilots who entered combat prior to about 1944.

I don't understand that. Do you mean he was trained by, or for, the
RAF in California in 1941? I've never heard of such an operation.

He was trained by a contractor. A man named Clayton Knight served as a "headhunter"
for the RAF. IIRC, he did the same sort of thing for China, finding pilots for the
AVG. American RAF trainees trained in PT-17s and AT-6s in California before heading
to Canada, where they took ship for Britain. Gover's class graduated 14 pilots to
Canada in late 1941; 7 survived the war.

I can believe that losses were quite high among pilots who fought
through the entire war. OTOH, they were much lower among those who
got into combat only a month or two before VE or VJ day.

Which is why I said "prior to about 1944" in my post.

George Patterson
If you don't tell lies, you never have to remember what you said.