More Blackbird Trivia

Where did you come up with this definition or "international airspace" or
even the term?

Mike
MU-2

"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:dKLqc.77875$536.12815683@attbi_s03...
Doesn't "overflight" mean within international airspace? Class-A goes
upto
60,000 ft and the Blackbird could fly at 85,000. So it was possible for
it
to overfly Russia above international airspace. But did the Agreement
write that out? If so, how was airspace and overflight defined? E.g., is
the moon overflying us?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsGKqc.34420$6f5.3418116@attbi_s54...
After our last discussion about the SR-71 Blackbird, a debate ensued as
to
whether the Blackbird actually overflew Soviet airspace, in direct
violation
of the agreement the U.S. signed with the U.S.S.R. after the Francis
Gary
Powers incident. This agreement forbade overflights.

I was under the impression that the U.S. *had* flown the SR-71 over
Russia -- so I decided to check with a friend who worked closely with
the
Blackbird for over three decades. It turns out we're all correct, sort
of...

Here's his response:

"Hi Jay, I am still out of town but will be home later this week. The
Blackbird was banned from crossing Russia by a law congress passed after
the
Gary Powers incident. We did however fly the D21 over there but it was
not
a
complete crossing but an in and out mission. The SR71 did fly the
perimeters
and could obtain a lot of elint data that way around every edge of
Russia."

So there you have it. The Blackbird itself did not overfly Russia --
but
the D21 (that weird-looking probe that was mounted on top of the
Blackbird,
between the two tails) did. It was not, however, a complete crossing.

Or, at least, that's what the experts are willing to admit to us at this
point! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

ICAO -- something like "International Council on Aircraft Operations".
They define Class-A, class-B, etc. Not to mention METARs and the like.
USA adopted these in 1992 IIRC.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Where did you come up with this definition or "international airspace" or
even the term?

Mike
MU-2

"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:dKLqc.77875$536.12815683@attbi_s03...
Doesn't "overflight" mean within international airspace? Class-A goes
upto
60,000 ft and the Blackbird could fly at 85,000. So it was possible
for
it
to overfly Russia above international airspace. But did the Agreement
write that out? If so, how was airspace and overflight defined? E.g.,
is
the moon overflying us?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsGKqc.34420$6f5.3418116@attbi_s54...
After our last discussion about the SR-71 Blackbird, a debate ensued
as
to
whether the Blackbird actually overflew Soviet airspace, in direct
violation
of the agreement the U.S. signed with the U.S.S.R. after the Francis
Gary
Powers incident. This agreement forbade overflights.

I was under the impression that the U.S. *had* flown the SR-71 over
Russia -- so I decided to check with a friend who worked closely with
the
Blackbird for over three decades. It turns out we're all correct,
sort
of...

Here's his response:

"Hi Jay, I am still out of town but will be home later this week. The
Blackbird was banned from crossing Russia by a law congress passed
after
the
Gary Powers incident. We did however fly the D21 over there but it was
not
a
complete crossing but an in and out mission. The SR71 did fly the
perimeters
and could obtain a lot of elint data that way around every edge of
Russia."

So there you have it. The Blackbird itself did not overfly Russia --
but
the D21 (that weird-looking probe that was mounted on top of the
Blackbird,
between the two tails) did. It was not, however, a complete crossing.

Or, at least, that's what the experts are willing to admit to us at
this
point! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

So where does it say that airspace above FL600 is "international airspace"?

Mike
MU-2


"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:aFMqc.78028$536.12851446@attbi_s03...
ICAO -- something like "International Council on Aircraft Operations".
They define Class-A, class-B, etc. Not to mention METARs and the like.
USA adopted these in 1992 IIRC.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Where did you come up with this definition or "international airspace"
or
even the term?

Mike
MU-2

"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:dKLqc.77875$536.12815683@attbi_s03...
Doesn't "overflight" mean within international airspace? Class-A
goes
upto
60,000 ft and the Blackbird could fly at 85,000. So it was possible
for
it
to overfly Russia above international airspace. But did the
Agreement
write that out? If so, how was airspace and overflight defined?
E.g.,
is
the moon overflying us?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsGKqc.34420$6f5.3418116@attbi_s54...
After our last discussion about the SR-71 Blackbird, a debate ensued
as
to
whether the Blackbird actually overflew Soviet airspace, in direct
violation
of the agreement the U.S. signed with the U.S.S.R. after the Francis
Gary
Powers incident. This agreement forbade overflights.

I was under the impression that the U.S. *had* flown the SR-71 over
Russia -- so I decided to check with a friend who worked closely
with
the
Blackbird for over three decades. It turns out we're all correct,
sort
of...

Here's his response:

"Hi Jay, I am still out of town but will be home later this week.
The
Blackbird was banned from crossing Russia by a law congress passed
after
the
Gary Powers incident. We did however fly the D21 over there but it
was
not
a
complete crossing but an in and out mission. The SR71 did fly the
perimeters
and could obtain a lot of elint data that way around every edge of
Russia."

So there you have it. The Blackbird itself did not overfly
Russia --
but
the D21 (that weird-looking probe that was mounted on top of the
Blackbird,
between the two tails) did. It was not, however, a complete
crossing.

Or, at least, that's what the experts are willing to admit to us at
this
point! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

The International airspace only goes up to 60,000; consequently, everything
above that is simply undefined. That's the point. There's no rules that
lets a nation regulate airspace above Class A.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
So where does it say that airspace above FL600 is "international
airspace"?

Mike
MU-2


"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:aFMqc.78028$536.12851446@attbi_s03...
ICAO -- something like "International Council on Aircraft Operations".
They define Class-A, class-B, etc. Not to mention METARs and the like.
USA adopted these in 1992 IIRC.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Where did you come up with this definition or "international airspace"
or
even the term?

Mike
MU-2

"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:dKLqc.77875$536.12815683@attbi_s03...
Doesn't "overflight" mean within international airspace? Class-A
goes
upto
60,000 ft and the Blackbird could fly at 85,000. So it was
possible
for
it
to overfly Russia above international airspace. But did the
Agreement
write that out? If so, how was airspace and overflight defined?
E.g.,
is
the moon overflying us?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsGKqc.34420$6f5.3418116@attbi_s54...
After our last discussion about the SR-71 Blackbird, a debate
ensued
as
to
whether the Blackbird actually overflew Soviet airspace, in direct
violation
of the agreement the U.S. signed with the U.S.S.R. after the
Francis
Gary
Powers incident. This agreement forbade overflights.

I was under the impression that the U.S. *had* flown the SR-71
over
Russia -- so I decided to check with a friend who worked closely
with
the
Blackbird for over three decades. It turns out we're all correct,
sort
of...

Here's his response:

"Hi Jay, I am still out of town but will be home later this week.
The
Blackbird was banned from crossing Russia by a law congress passed
after
the
Gary Powers incident. We did however fly the D21 over there but it
was
not
a
complete crossing but an in and out mission. The SR71 did fly the
perimeters
and could obtain a lot of elint data that way around every edge of
Russia."

So there you have it. The Blackbird itself did not overfly
Russia --
but
the D21 (that weird-looking probe that was mounted on top of the
Blackbird,
between the two tails) did. It was not, however, a complete
crossing.

Or, at least, that's what the experts are willing to admit to us
at
this
point! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No, the ABC airspace only goes up to FL600 but that does not imply that the
underlying country does not own and control airspace above FL600. Airspace
above FL600 is class E airspace in the US. Try flying over China above
FL600 or ask Gary Powers if you want more.

Mike
MU-2


"William W. Plummer" wrote in message
news:JISqc.25937$gr.2298343@attbi_s52...
The International airspace only goes up to 60,000; consequently,
everything
above that is simply undefined. That's the point. There's no rules that
lets a nation regulate airspace above Class A.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
nk.net...
So where does it say that airspace above FL600 is "international
airspace"?

Mike
MU-2


"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:aFMqc.78028$536.12851446@attbi_s03...
ICAO -- something like "International Council on Aircraft Operations".
They define Class-A, class-B, etc. Not to mention METARs and the
like.
USA adopted these in 1992 IIRC.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
Where did you come up with this definition or "international
airspace"
or
even the term?

Mike
MU-2

"William W. Plummer" wrote in
message
news:dKLqc.77875$536.12815683@attbi_s03...
Doesn't "overflight" mean within international airspace? Class-A
goes
upto
60,000 ft and the Blackbird could fly at 85,000. So it was
possible
for
it
to overfly Russia above international airspace. But did the
Agreement
write that out? If so, how was airspace and overflight defined?
E.g.,
is
the moon overflying us?

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
newsGKqc.34420$6f5.3418116@attbi_s54...
After our last discussion about the SR-71 Blackbird, a debate
ensued
as
to
whether the Blackbird actually overflew Soviet airspace, in
direct
violation
of the agreement the U.S. signed with the U.S.S.R. after the
Francis
Gary
Powers incident. This agreement forbade overflights.

I was under the impression that the U.S. *had* flown the SR-71
over
Russia -- so I decided to check with a friend who worked closely
with
the
Blackbird for over three decades. It turns out we're all
correct,
sort
of...

Here's his response:

"Hi Jay, I am still out of town but will be home later this
week.
The
Blackbird was banned from crossing Russia by a law congress
passed
after
the
Gary Powers incident. We did however fly the D21 over there but
it
was
not
a
complete crossing but an in and out mission. The SR71 did fly
the
perimeters
and could obtain a lot of elint data that way around every edge
of
Russia."

So there you have it. The Blackbird itself did not overfly
Russia --
but
the D21 (that weird-looking probe that was mounted on top of the
Blackbird,
between the two tails) did. It was not, however, a complete
crossing.

Or, at least, that's what the experts are willing to admit to us
at
this
point! :-)
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

No, the ABC airspace only goes up to FL600 but that does not imply that
the
underlying country does not own and control airspace above FL600.
Airspace
above FL600 is class E airspace in the US. Try flying over China above
FL600 or ask Gary Powers if you want more.

Where do satellites fit into this definition?

Or, rather, where does international outer space begin?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

I think space begins by agreement at 100km or something like that.

Mike
MU-2

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:1C2rc.28555$gr.2591276@attbi_s52...
No, the ABC airspace only goes up to FL600 but that does not imply that
the
underlying country does not own and control airspace above FL600.
Airspace
above FL600 is class E airspace in the US. Try flying over China above
FL600 or ask Gary Powers if you want more.

Where do satellites fit into this definition?

Or, rather, where does international outer space begin?
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Thu, 20 May 2004 13:43:25 GMT, Jay Honeck wrote:


Where do satellites fit into this definition?

Or, rather, where does international outer space begin?


google is your friend.

http://www.oosa.unvienna.org/FAQ/splawfaq.htm

#m

--
Martin!!! Maaaaartiiiin!!! Can you please flame this guy for me?
'HECTOP' in rec.aviation.piloting

Jay Honeck wrote:

Where do satellites fit into this definition?

Satellites, by definition, are located outside the Earth's atmosphere and are subject
to the restrictions and privileges of the several United Nations treaties concerning
outer space.

Or, rather, where does international outer space begin?

The dictionary definition is "outside the Earth's atmosphere".

George Patterson
I childproofed my house, but they *still* get in.

"Mike Rapoport" wrote in message
ink.net...
No, the ABC airspace only goes up to FL600 but that does not imply that
the
underlying country does not own and control airspace above FL600.
Airspace
above FL600 is class E airspace in the US. Try flying over China above
FL600 or ask Gary Powers if you want more.

I'd volunteer to fry flying a Blackbird at 60,000 feet over China.

I mean, if they're taking volunteers. :

-c