Another frivolous lawsuit

"Jack" wrote:
With onboard radar and a cruising altitude of FL260,
one would think it would be relatively easy to avoid
penetrating a thunderstorm.

It's just as easy with no radar and a service ceiling in the
low teens: just say, "No!"

If you 'just say, "No!"' to flying any time the NEXRAD is blooming, you
won't use your airplane for travel very much near the Gulf Coast for
most of the year - unless you can finish all your flights before 10 AM.

CBs down here are like ants at a picnic: you're just going to have to
deal with them if you want to play. Getting up high enough is one way,
but that means flying at least a turbo or preferably a pressurized
turbine airplane. If you don't have that, you have to decide where you
can fly and still see the bad boys. On most summer days, towering CU
tops are 10,000 by noon, so if there are more than a few isolated
storms the best bet is to stay down below the bases. There, you can at
least see where the dark spots are. Of course the down side of this is
that you will have a hot, muggy, bumpy ride, but at least you won't
blunder into a trap because you couldn't see what was coming.

Some kind of weather detection gear is a must. I tried doing without up
until last year and it is simply too frustrating, unnerving and
dangerous. Fortunately, there are lots of solutions appearing for light
GA aircraft in addition to the old spherics stanbys. Yes, there are
still days when I can't get there because of thunderstorms (once, so far
this year), but it takes a solid line of rough stuff to stop me.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

On 6/18/04 3:07 PM, in article , "Dan
Luke" wrote:


"Jack" wrote:

With onboard radar and a cruising altitude of FL260,
one would think it would be relatively easy to avoid
penetrating a thunderstorm.

It's just as easy with no radar and a service ceiling in the
low teens: just say, "No!"

If you 'just say, "No!"' to flying any time the NEXRAD is blooming, you
won't use your airplane for travel very much near the Gulf Coast for
most of the year - unless you can finish all your flights before 10 AM.

That's "No!" to "penetrating a thunderstorm", if you'll take a closer look,
and is not the same as "No!" to flying.

Radar and FL 260 capability is no defense against thunderstorms, if you
don't know what to do with those resources. FL 260 won't put you over them,
and you need a good deal of ability to interpret what you see on the radar
in any case, and that doesn't come quick, easy, or cheap.

Day or night, with radar or without, stay VMC in areas with thunderstorms
and give them a wide berth.

Can you go over them if you have enough altitude capability? Sure you can,
but first define "enough" -- FL 350, FL 450, FL 550? Sometimes even FL 550
isn't enough. And since your altitude capability requires having all engines
running, if you lose one it is possible to get yourself in a position where,
due to weather and terrain, you can't get out of the box in which loss of
your high altitude capability puts you without penetrating weather you don't
want to be in. And that's just one scenario to consider. I'm sure folks here
on the NG can come up with others, esp., those with tens of thousands of
hours in their log books. We didn't accumulate those hours by treating
thunderstorms lightly. There are a number of ways to avoid the dangers of
thunderstorms, and only one of them is "not flying".



Jack

"Jack" wrote:
That's "No!" to "penetrating a thunderstorm", if you'll take a
closer look, and is not the same as "No!" to flying.

Mmmm, well, forgive me if I misinterpreted your statement, but who
deliberately pentrates a thunderstorm? Weather research planes are the
only ones I can think of.

Radar and FL 260 capability is no defense against
thunderstorms,

No, but that kind of altitude capability gives one a lot better look at
things most days than I get, for instance.

Day or night, with radar or without, stay VMC in areas with
thunderstorms
and give them a wide berth.

In general, I agree with this but I make some careful exceptions. Since
I now have NEXRAD in the airplane, I will fly in IMC with thunderstorms
about if 1) I am not attempting to fly through a gap in a line of storms
2) I am sure I always have a wide avenue "out" in some direction.

We didn't accumulate those hours by treating
thunderstorms lightly.

If I gave the impression that I think thundersorms should be treated
lightly, I expressed myself poorly. Thunderstorms scare the s*** out of
me.

There are a number of ways to avoid the dangers of thunderstorms,
and only one of them is "not flying".

Yep.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 15:07:29 -0500, Dan Luke wrote:

CBs down here are like ants at a picnic: you're just going to have to
deal with them if you want to play. Getting up high enough is one way,
but that means flying at least a turbo or preferably a pressurized
turbine airplane. If you don't have that, you have to decide where you
can fly and still see the bad boys. On most summer days, towering CU
tops are 10,000 by noon, so if there are more than a few isolated
storms the best bet is to stay down below the bases. There, you can at
least see where the dark spots are. Of course the down side of this is
that you will have a hot, muggy, bumpy ride, but at least you won't
blunder into a trap because you couldn't see what was coming.

Dan

You are so right in staying below the bases! There have been several trips
I have made from MBO (Madison MS) to L31 (Covington LA) where I almost got
myself in trouble.

It's amazing how quickly the towering CU's build! Even before 9:00 a.m., I
encountered tops over 6000.

My last trip, I left MBO at 6:00 a.m. to drop off something my sister left
behind, and 30 miles north of L31 tops were already 4000 at 7:15 a.m. Left
at 7:45 and staying in the clear, climbed to 7,500 and tops were starting
to build to my altitude. I went that high figuring to remain in the cool
air and smoother ride. Needless to say, the clear air below me was
starting to close up quickly ahead of me, and I didn't want to pick my way
through "small holes". This weather was not forecasted (ok, they said 10
percent chance of thunderstorms).

Just as you describe above, I descended (very quickly I might add!) down to
2000 (tallest object on sectional was 1100) and was able to see rain shafts
developing under the towering CU's.

Even though I remained VFR the entire time, my biggest fear was descending
through the IFR altitudes, and I was afraid of IFR traffic popping out of
the clouds, thus my reason to very quickly descend.

I zig zagged my way home staying in the sunny areas at all time as I was
afraid the rain shafts would produce undesirable downdrafts. I also keep a
very wide berth of any rainshaft in the summer time, as I just assume that
it's a thunderstorm. May be overly cautious, but I rather go 15 minutes
out of my way, then to find myself in a pickle.

GA aircraft in addition to the old spherics stanbys. Yes, there are
still days when I can't get there because of thunderstorms (once, so far
this year), but it takes a solid line of rough stuff to stop me.

I don't know if I would be so calviar about this.... I have seen TCU's go
from the scattered variety to a solid line in a 1/2 hour's period of time
down here.

I don't know what the definition of 10 percent chance of thunderstorms, but
I was under the impression, if the forecast is for 10 percent, that is 10
percent of coverage, not a 1 in 10 chance of a thunderstorm. So, if you
happened to have a thunderstorm over your head, you just so happen to be
under the 10 percent of coverage.

Allen

"A Lieberman" wrote:
It's amazing how quickly the towering CU's build! Even before
9:00 a.m., I encountered tops over 6000.

My last trip, I left MBO at 6:00 a.m. to drop off something my
sister left behind, and 30 miles north of L31 tops were already
4000 at 7:15 a.m. Left at 7:45 and staying in the clear, climbed
to 7,500 and tops were starting to build to my altitude.

Sucks, don't it? Being a pilot way down South will make you hate
summertime.

...but it takes a solid line of rough stuff to stop me.

I don't know if I would be so calviar about this.... I have
seen TCU's go from the scattered variety to a solid line in
a 1/2 hour's period of time down here.

Well, with the NEXRAD picture I've got now, I don't think I'm being
cavalier about it if I fly through a 25-mile hole in a line of medium
storms. The thing is to know the development trend. The looping NEXRAD
display gives me that, so I know before I get there if the storms are
closing ranks. Still, I grant you that I am pushing it harder and
closer than I used to.
--
Dan
C172RG at BFM

"A Lieberman" wrote in message
...
I zig zagged my way home staying in the sunny areas at all time as I was
afraid the rain shafts would produce undesirable downdrafts. I also keep
a
very wide berth of any rainshaft in the summer time, as I just assume that
it's a thunderstorm. May be overly cautious, but I rather go 15 minutes
out of my way, then to find myself in a pickle.

It's easier on the paint too.

Paul