Why fly fast approaches?

Edr,

The instructor does a great deal of initial/primary student training.


It still doesn't make sense with primary students to fly faster,
either.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

Ash,

Perhaps the FAA could be useful
and do some research.


IMHO, that research would be totally useless. From common experience
with the planes we all fly, what effect do you expect? Zilch, nada,
niente. So why bother to do research?

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

If you fly the same plane regularly you're going to figure out in
short order what indicated speeds work for what weight. Make note
of them and adjust accordingly. When using 1.3Vso also keep
in mind how the speeds are listed in the POH. If calibrated airspeed
then you'll have to adjust to the correct indicated airspeed if needed
if you're calculating it from the book stall speed.


"Ash Wyllie" wrote in message
...
C J Campbell opined

I think the instructor's reasoning is faulty. Why would the stall speed
increase as the airplane ages? If it has increased measurably, then
something needs to be repaired.

Bugs, dents, dirt would all change the shape of the wing. How much that
would
change the stall speed is an open question. Perhaps the FAA could be
useful
and do some research.

I don't even teach student pilots to fly faster than necessary. It is too
easy for a student to lose control on a fast approach, especially if he
balloons or bounces.





-ash
Cthulhu for President!
Why vote for a lesser evil?

"Peter Duniho" wrote in message ...
"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...
'Scuse, Peter, but I said "all the V speeds you're talking about",
not "all V-speeds".

As best I can tell, the original poster was talking about
Vr, and landing speed.

Whatever. I find Vx and Vy to be perfectly relevant in this thread, even
looking at only the first post. You want to be offended, go right
ahead...wouldn't be the first time.

Vx and Vy are certainly relevant to bring into the discussion, but
they weren't mentioned in the original poster's description, and I
referred to that. You were responding to my post, and saying "not true"
to me. I simply clarified what I'd meant.

That doesn't mean that Vx and Vy aren't relevant to introduce, as
additional factors which *are* dependent on factors other than stall
speed. It's a reasonable point -- provided it's not introduced in a
way which puts words into someone else's mouth or refutes a claim
they weren't making.

I await your explanation of Vr and what it depends upon, and I note
that one can fly behind an engine later shown to have one cylinder
completely flat, and not notice any particular changes to Vy, the
rate of climb obtained at that speed (under DA conditions not near
the edge of the envelope, admittedly), or cruise airspeed.

Cheers,
Sydney

On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 03:01:25 GMT, wrote:

I fly a 1979 PA-28-181 all the time,

I really love flying this plane. It handles nicely and takes bumps more
gracefully then high wing planes.

--Michael

In what way do you mean takes bumps more gracefully? Is there some
way to quantify this?

Thanks, Corky Scott

"Michael" wrote in message
om...

My perspective is that at 1200 hours, you might want to start thinking
about becoming an instructor yourself. What you experienced is,
unfortunately, more the rule than the exception, and is the kind of
nonsense that eventually prompted me to become an instructor.

We have one second-hand report of an instructor like this. Every other
instructor who posts here disagreed with him. Yet you think this single
instructor represents the "rule" rather than the "exception."

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
EDR wrote:

I am thinking in terms of performance as would apply
to the Commercial standards.

This is completely reasonable. I just did my annual club checkride. This
requires flight to PPL standards. But since I'm (slowly) working on my
CPL, that's what I aimed for and what the CFI and I discussed.


Every instructor I know requires a pilot to fly up to the standards of his
certificates and ratings when he does a check-out, flight review, or
whatever. If you sign a guy off and he has a commercial certificate and
instrument rating and he can't fly to those standards then I think you might
have some liability there.

wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 03:01:25 GMT, wrote:

I fly a 1979 PA-28-181 all the time,

I really love flying this plane. It handles nicely and takes bumps more
gracefully then high wing planes.

--Michael

In what way do you mean takes bumps more gracefully? Is there some
way to quantify this?


The way a plane handles bumps is a function of wing loading instead of where
the wing is located.

C J Campbell wrote:

Every instructor I know requires a pilot to fly up to the standards of his
certificates and ratings when he does a check-out, flight review, or
whatever. If you sign a guy off and he has a commercial certificate and
instrument rating and he can't fly to those standards then I think you
might have some liability there.

I doubt it, although I cannot explain the reasoning myself.

First, we just redid our insurance. Naturally, they reviewed our rules.
But for adding a tighter currency requirement for a retract, they had
nothing but praise for our operational rules - which included the checkouts
we do.

As I said, I cannot explain the reasoning myself. I did, when I first
joined, expect precisely what you're suggesting.

Second, keep in mind that this wasn't a checkout mandated by anything other
than club rules. We're essentially a large partnership. As an ownership
situation, this is different from a "rental" type of environment.

As an owner, the only requirements "mandated" (beyond the FAA rules, of
course) are those dictated by insurance. As I mentioned, we satisfy
these...although, as I also said, I originally expected precisely what
you've suggested.

- Andrew

"Snowbird" wrote in message
om...
I await your explanation of Vr and what it depends upon

I've never flown an airplane with a published Vr. Since you're the one
making claims about how it's determined, how about YOU explain Vr and what
it depends on.

As far as Vy and Vx not varying with engine power (your claim regarding "one
cylinder completely flat"), you may not have noticed the difference in the
cockpit, but that doesn't mean they didn't change.

Pete