Flying while deaf

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Steve R." wrote in message
...

How does one communicate with ATC when one is deaf?


Via light gun signals.


That's for communications with the control tower at a controlled field
airport, not ATC!


It's not ATC that staffs control towers?

Maybe, but if the guy is 20 miles out and needing clearance to enter the
airport traffic area, he's not going to be able to "see" the signal lights
very well, is he? What if he needs to transit a Class B airspace to get to
the controlled field? If he can't hear, he can't communicate with ATC,
thus, he can't get clearance. I've got to wonder if this one isn't a scam.

Signal lights are for short range, visual communications and there's no use
for them outside the airport traffic area.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.

"Steve R." wrote in message
...
Via light gun signals.

That's for communications with the control tower at a controlled field
airport, not ATC!

It's not ATC that staffs control towers?

Maybe, but if the guy is 20 miles out and needing clearance to enter the
airport traffic area, he's not going to be able to "see" the signal lights
very well, is he?

Are you aware of any other method by which a deaf pilot communicates with
ATC?

Seems to me that Steven's reply quite accurately described how a deaf pilot
would communicate with ATC. The fact that the deaf pilot cannot communicate
with ATC in all circumstances is irrelevant to the answer.

Yes, one might infer that it's relevant to the original question, but it's
not Steven's way to go out of his way to be helpful (no offense
Steven...that's just how your posts are) and the original question didn't
ask how deaf pilots *can't* communicate with ATC. Steven *did* answer the
question asked, and as far as I know, did so completely (that is, he left no
other method out).

If you know different, we're all ears (except the deaf pilots ).

Pete

Hi Peter & All,

Well, obviously, I missed part of the conversation. If I spoke out of turn,
I apologize. The part I did catch didn't make sense to me at the time and I
was probably taking things a bit too literally.

Toks Desalu made some good points in his reply, points I hadn't considered.
Yes, there will be areas in aviation that the hearing impaired will have
trouble with but there are still plenty of places that they are more than
capable of enjoying safely. As they rightly pointed out, there's still
plenty of places where a radio isn't even required.

Again, if I spoke out of turn on this issue, I apologize. I certainly did
not mean any offense to the hearing impaired.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.


"Peter Duniho" wrote in message
...

Seems to me that Steven's reply quite accurately described how a deaf
pilot would communicate with ATC. The fact that the deaf pilot cannot
communicate with ATC in all circumstances is irrelevant to the answer.

Yes, one might infer that it's relevant to the original question, but it's
not Steven's way to go out of his way to be helpful (no offense
Steven...that's just how your posts are) and the original question didn't
ask how deaf pilots *can't* communicate with ATC. Steven *did* answer the
question asked, and as far as I know, did so completely (that is, he left
no other method out).

If you know different, we're all ears (except the deaf pilots ).

Pete

Well, obviously, I missed part of the conversation. If I spoke out of
turn,
I apologize. The part I did catch didn't make sense to me at the time and
I
was probably taking things a bit too literally.

I can see where you going with this. You probably took this a bit too
literally. That bring us back to the previous question. "What does having
been owned by a deaf helicopter have to do with the auction of a car?" I
don't know. Maybe, some people think that car have a sentimental value.
Maybe, the seller is trying to make a profit by using that article. I don't
know what the seller's motive behind this. Either way, I think his
advertising is plainly stupid. But, the seller might get lucky.

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin' to Soar!

Well, obviously, I missed part of the conversation. If I spoke out of
turn,
I apologize. The part I did catch didn't make sense to me at the time and
I
was probably taking things a bit too literally.

I can see where you going with this. You probably took this a bit too
literally. That bring us back to the previous question. "What does having
been owned by a deaf helicopter have to do with the auction of a car?" I
don't know. Maybe, some people think that car have a sentimental value.
Maybe, the seller is trying to make a profit by using that article. I don't
know what the seller's motive behind this. Either way, I think his
advertising is plainly stupid. But, the seller might get lucky.

Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin' to Soar!

Maybe, but if the guy is 20 miles out and needing clearance to enter the
airport traffic area, he's not going to be able to "see" the signal lights
very well, is he?

I am not sure about bravo airspace due to nature of traffic. For other
controlled airspaces, deaf pilot already got his clearance. In order to
enter controlled airspace, he/she can contact tower by phone (They use
special device called TTY to communicate through phone) The deaf pilot will
be given instructions and squawk code.That's it. He/she will follow that
instructions.

What if he needs to transit a Class B airspace to get to
the controlled field? If he can't hear, he can't communicate with ATC,
thus, he can't get clearance.

Again, I dont think the deaf pilot can enter bravo airspace, even with a
special clearance due to nature of traffic. Besides, bravo airspaces only
cover a small percent of whole airspace system. I am pretty sure that they
can afford to make small detour if there is a conflict.

I've got to wonder if this one isn't a scam.

Signal lights are for short range, visual communications and there's no
use
for them outside the airport traffic area.

It is not a scam or anything. They fly strictly under VFR, like any other
pilots who fly without radio.


Toks Desalu
PP-ASEL
Dyin to soar!

On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 19:04:09 -0400, "Toks Desalu"
wrote:

It is not a scam or anything. They fly strictly under VFR, like any other
pilots who fly without radio.

Since I had to get a SODA to fly with monocular vision (left eye blind
for all practical purposes), I have to believe that a deaf pilot also
has a SODA, and that it restricts what airspace he can enter.

Be an interesting question if one visits the local FSDO.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
Viva Bush! www.vivabush.org

Cub Driver wrote:

Since I had to get a SODA to fly with monocular vision (left eye blind
for all practical purposes), I have to believe that a deaf pilot also
has a SODA, and that it restricts what airspace he can enter.

My club has two of our aircraft at an untowered airport, which is a little
unusual around here. As a result, we entertained a deaf pilot considering
membership a number of months ago.

Actually, it was more the other way around. He spoke to us (through a sign
interpreter) about his unique experiences.

My understanding is that an instrument rating and such is an impossibility
for him, and that he is restricted - as you suggested - to airspace which
doesn't require communication.

I don't whether anyone thought to ask whether he could fly into class D
airspace given the proper light-gun signals. But given the frequency of
clubs at class D airports around here, I'd have to guess "not".

BTW, I recently spoke to another pilot that used a hearing aid. I was
surprised to hear that he cannot pass a class two physical. Apparently,
while it is permissible to require corrected vision, corrected hearing is
not permissible.

Anyone know why? Is it the electronic/powered nature of the correction?
Something else?

- Andrew

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
[...]
BTW, I recently spoke to another pilot that used a hearing aid. I was
surprised to hear that he cannot pass a class two physical. Apparently,
while it is permissible to require corrected vision, corrected hearing is
not permissible.

Anyone know why? Is it the electronic/powered nature of the correction?
Something else?

I expect that's at least part of it; vision correction is passive, while
hearing "correction" is active. Another issue is probably that, while
vision can be corrected to a specific standard, AFAIK hearing cannot. All a
hearing aid can do is amplify the sound, but volume may not address the
entire scope of the hearing problem.

It's probably more like trying to get a medical when you have cataracts than
it is when you are nearsighted.

Pete

"Steve R." wrote in message
...

That's for communications with the control tower at a controlled field
airport, not ATC!


It's not ATC that staffs control towers?


Maybe,

Maybe it's not ATC that staffs control towers? Who do you think staffs
them?



but if the guy is 20 miles out and needing clearance to enter the airport
traffic area, he's not going to be able to "see" the signal lights very
well, is he?


What is this airport traffic area that requires clearance to enter at 20
miles out?



What if he needs to transit a Class B airspace to get to the
controlled field?


Then he's almost certainly outta luck. ATC must separate all traffic in
Class B airspace and it's rather hard to do that without communications.



If he can't hear, he can't communicate with ATC, thus,
he can't get clearance. I've got to wonder if this one isn't a scam.


The question was, "How does one communicate with ATC when one is deaf?"
It's a simple question. One CAN use light gun signals. Can you think of
any others?

Incidentally, there was a time when most aircraft had no radios and light
gun signals were the main form of pilot/controller communications at towered
fields.



Signal lights are for short range, visual communications and there's no
use for them outside the airport traffic area.


That's all true. So what's your point?

Incidentally, we haven't had Airport Traffic Areas in the US for almost
eleven years now.