EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...

"Cribsheet" wrote in message
...
EXPORTING JOBS IMPORTING POVERTY

The U.S. population is increasing by about three million legal and
illegal
immigrants each year while jobs are being exported by the bucketful.

All legal and most illegal immigrants come here because there are jobs
available.


I have very mixed feelings on this issue. On one hand, I'm usually a
let-the-market-decide laissez-faire capitalist in favor of open borders.

On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively to
more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is an
issue as well.

I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before we
let more in, don't you think?

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively
to
more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is
an
issue as well.

I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before
we
let more in, don't you think?


If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
continue to come here?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

On the other hand, it's pretty clear the last thing we need are more
uneducated, unskilled workers. The market will always respond positively
to
more employees; it's good for keeping costs down. But social stability is
an
issue as well.

I'll take all the Chinese engineers, Indian programmers, and European
designers that want to come here. Polish masons are good, as are Irish
plasterers. Educated professionals and skilled tradesmen we can always use
more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit before
we
let more in, don't you think?



If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do they
continue to come here?



To sponge off every working american by getting free health care, and
welfare.

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit
before
we
let more in, don't you think?



If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do
they
continue to come here?


They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The result
of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
get lazy American citizens to come work for them. With jobs available at
higher wages, fewer uneductaed, unskilled Americans will choose welfare
and/or crime as their primary means of employment.

-cwk.

They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The result
of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
get lazy American citizens to come work for them.


And then the price of whatever they make will go up high enough to become
noncompetitive in the world market, the factory will close, and those durned
foriegners will get the same jobs in shiny new factories in their own country.

And,of course, they will take the high paying managerial, shipping and
marketing jobs at that factory with them.

You cannot defeat the free market. You can create the temporary illusion that
you have, but the free market ALWAYS wins in the end.

--
Wm. Donald (Don) Tabor Jr., DDS
PP-ASEL
Chesapeake, VA - CPK, PVG

"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...

They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The
result
of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
get lazy American citizens to come work for them.


And then the price of whatever they make will go up high enough to become
noncompetitive in the world market, the factory will close, and those
durned
foriegners will get the same jobs in shiny new factories in their own
country.

We're not talking about factory jobs here. Those have already migrated
offshore because of labor/environmental regulations and basic cost issues
that can't be worked around. We're talking about things like busboys,
gardeners, ditch diggers, etc. These things can't be offshored.

Of course, this does mean prices for the goods and services involved will go
up. Without cheap Guatemalan nannies more yuppie mothers may choose to stay
at home with the kids rather than hire a more expensive citizen. Her husband
may choose to mow the lawn himself instead of paying a landscaper to do it.

-cwk.

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 17:09:02 GMT, "C Kingsbury"
wrote:


"Wdtabor" wrote in message
...

They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages. The
result
of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor market. Without
illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
get lazy American citizens to come work for them.


And then the price of whatever they make will go up high enough to become
noncompetitive in the world market, the factory will close, and those
durned
foriegners will get the same jobs in shiny new factories in their own
country.

We're not talking about factory jobs here. Those have already migrated
offshore because of labor/environmental regulations and basic cost issues
that can't be worked around. We're talking about things like busboys,
gardeners, ditch diggers, etc. These things can't be offshored.

Back quite some time ago, when I was farming I needed help to hoe
beans. True it was a minimum wage job, but many of the high school
students I knew were looking for work. I could not get one to
consider a hoe handle. So, I spent most of the Summer on a hoe handle
when not on a tractor and when I considered the hours it was a lot
less than I had offered to pay them.. Hoeing beans was not hard work,
but it was tedious and tiresome.

I have found that although there are many unskilled jobs in some areas
the only ones who will take them are the immigrants. So when it comes
to the farm labor I seriously doubt they are taking jobs away from
many locals.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Of course, this does mean prices for the goods and services involved will go
up. Without cheap Guatemalan nannies more yuppie mothers may choose to stay
at home with the kids rather than hire a more expensive citizen. Her husband
may choose to mow the lawn himself instead of paying a landscaper to do it.

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Chris" wrote in message
.. .
Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

more of. But let's get unemployment in the inner cities down a bit
before
we
let more in, don't you think?



If there are no jobs for these uneducated, unskilled workers, why do
they
continue to come here?


They find jobs because they're willing to work at very low wages.


Which means jobs are available. So why is unemployment high in the inner
cities?



The result of this is to depress wages in this segment of the labor
market. Without
illegal immigrants, lots of employers would have to offer higher wages to
get lazy American citizens to come work for them.


Which increases the costs of their goods or services, perhaps making them
noncompetitive.



With jobs available at
higher wages, fewer uneductaed, unskilled Americans will choose welfare
and/or crime as their primary means of employment.


We can eliminate welfare as an alternative to work by eliminating welfare.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message
ink.net...

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

With jobs available at
higher wages, fewer uneductaed, unskilled Americans will choose welfare
and/or crime as their primary means of employment.


We can eliminate welfare as an alternative to work by eliminating welfare.

Sure. You do that. It took half a century just to chip away at the welfare
state (1996 welfare reform) and even though it was signed by Bill Clinton,
his party's been trying to get rid of even that small step ever since.

-cwk.

"C Kingsbury" wrote in message
ink.net...

We can eliminate welfare as an alternative to work by eliminating
welfare.


Sure. You do that. It took half a century just to chip away at the welfare
state (1996 welfare reform) and even though it was signed by Bill Clinton,
his party's been trying to get rid of even that small step ever since.


Quite true. Most of the problems the Democrats rail against are the results
of legislation enacted by Democrats.