Challenger Crashe at TEB

Gary Mishler wrote:

"Capt.Doug"
There was no visible moisture. The sky was crystal clear. The only wing
contamination possible would have been light frost on the bottom of the
wing
where the fuel had cold-soaked after landing- if the plane had made a
quick-turn. No other aircraft had requested de-icing. I doubt that the
cause
was wing ice.

Frost on top of the wings, and more importantly - on top of the T-tail is
highly likely. I have flown a T tail jet for 25 years and you can get frost
on top of the wings and tail very easily in the early morning with the right
conditions.

An AP article stated that the temperature at the time was 20 degrees. I think
that rules out frost, but I'm not sure. Another report today stated that there
was no indication that ice was a factor.

George Patterson
He who would distinguish what is true from what is false must have an
adequate understanding of truth and falsehood.

George Patterson wrote:

An AP article stated that the temperature at the time was 20 degrees.
I think that rules out frost, but I'm not sure.

George, as I posted earlier, I have personally experienced three different
aircraft frosting over within 10 minutes of landing when the outside air
temp was around 5-10 degrees F. Temperature alone does not rule out
frost.


--
Peter







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"George Patterson" wrote in message
...
An AP article stated that the temperature at the time was 20 degrees. I
think
that rules out frost, but I'm not sure.

Nope. When I flew last Wednesday morning, the temperature was -7C, and it
took me about twenty minutes to remove all the frost from the wings and
tail.

--Gary

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...

There was no visible moisture. The sky was crystal clear. The only wing
contamination possible would have been light frost on the bottom of the
wing
where the fuel had cold-soaked after landing- if the plane had made a
quick-turn.

When I walked past my car in the driveway about a half hour before dawn this
morning, the sky was crystal clear with no visible moisture and there was no
frost on my car. When I left for work about a half hour after sunrise, the
sky was crystal clear with no visible moisture but enough frost had formed
on my car during that time that I needed to lightly scrape my windows off
before I left.

Had the same thing happen in SFO once in the lear on a "dawn patrol"
departure. Clear sky, no visible moisture but frost started to form on the
wings and top of the fuselage right about sunrise. When the passengers
arrived we had the line crew use their "garden sprayer" deice setup to
lightly spray the frost off the wings and top of tail and away we went with
no problem.

Not speculating, but an area they will be looking at with the TEB incident.

Thank you for pointing this out. The "visable moisture" requirement is for
in-flight icing, not frost. Temp/Dewpoint at TEB yesterday morning was
M04/M08. Obviously the "collecting surface" was below freezing and the temp
dewpoint spread was narrow enough for the humidity to sublimate and create
frost on the wings.

Jim

"Jim Burns" wrote in message
...
Thank you for pointing this out. The "visable moisture" requirement is
for
in-flight icing, not frost. Temp/Dewpoint at TEB yesterday morning was
M04/M08. Obviously the "collecting surface" was below freezing and the
temp
dewpoint spread was narrow enough for the humidity to sublimate and create
frost on the wings.

Jim

Sounds like we're closing in on an answer, or at the very least reasonably
informed speculation.

"Jon Kraus" wrote in message
...
It looks like the Challenger skidded off the runway and crashed into a
warehouse at TEB. Isn't this the same kind of plane that crashed on
takeoff in Colorado? It looks like the plane remained intact so hopefully
the passengers and crew are OK.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146112,00.html

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
'79 Mooney 201 4443H


Two in the last two months? Winter ops are not to kind for the Challenger.

Looks like all except the co-pilot walked away, and the co-pilot had a broken leg. Someone on a respirator with head
injuries was hit while driving his car, and a couple more were injured when hit...


"Jon Kraus" wrote in message ...
It looks like the Challenger skidded off the runway and crashed into a warehouse at TEB. Isn't this the same kind of
plane that crashed on takeoff in Colorado? It looks like the plane remained intact so hopefully the passengers and
crew are OK.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146112,00.html

Jon Kraus
PP-ASEL-IA
'79 Mooney 201 4443H

Blueskies wrote:
/snip/ Someone on a respirator with head
injuries was hit while driving his car, and a couple more were injured when hit...

Well, he shouldn't have been driving in the first place!!!

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 13:50:35 -0900, Scott Skylane
wrote:

Blueskies wrote:
/snip/ Someone on a respirator with head
injuries was hit while driving his car, and a couple more were injured when hit...

Well, he shouldn't have been driving in the first place!!!


LOL!!! That's exactly what I was thinking!!!

z