In Flight Malfunctions and Emergencies

Seems this area hasn't been touched in awhile and the group is getting
stale. Well, let me stir the pot and see who is still aboard.
My very first feeling of emergency I think, occured when my instructor
said, "YOU HAVE IT", but he was also quick to relieve me of the
anxiety and settled the helicopter back into a rock steady hover (or
so it seemed to me).
Since then, in the late 60's, I've experienced engine failures, tail
rotor failures, engine basket failures, LTE, compensation weight
failures (Hiller), fuel system failures, wire strikes, spatial
disorientation, fuel exhaustion, and miscellaneous dumb ****.
I am putting myself out there as a target for the "pilots" who want to
take a shot at me and tell me how stupid I am or what they would have
done without ever being there to experience it. I am also posting for
pilots to admit their own errors so the rest of us can learn from it.
One of the things that still puzzles me is why I have been able to do
the things I have without being in more accidents or without injury
while others have wrecked numerous aircraft with or without death or
injury. There has to be a reason. Anyone have a clue?
Ol Shy & Bashful

Whats an "engine basket failure" ?

Bart

Thanks very much for a thread that I predict will be a real good one. Rocky
whenever I catch a ride in a Hiller UH12 the pilot always asks me my weight
and this is one of the few times my good sense overcomes my vanity and I
tell him the truthG Does this tie into your comment about the Hiller
compensation weight? He usually says I'm within range
and then puts me in the middle seat. Is this a lateral weight and balance
"problem" common to all older, wider helos or does this have more to do with
the Hiller rotor system? Thanks again! Larry

"LM Scott" wrote in message ...
Thanks very much for a thread that I predict will be a real good one. Rocky
whenever I catch a ride in a Hiller UH12 the pilot always asks me my weight
and this is one of the few times my good sense overcomes my vanity and I
tell him the truthG Does this tie into your comment about the Hiller
compensation weight? He usually says I'm within range
and then puts me in the middle seat. Is this a lateral weight and balance
"problem" common to all older, wider helos or does this have more to do with
the Hiller rotor system? Thanks again! Larry

Hi Larry
The compensating weights are sticking up on metal bands that are about
1" wide and have square weights on the end. They are located on the
forward upper right of the engine area and nearly directly above and
behind the right seat. They are for easing the weight necessary for
the collective/cyclic input. The thru bolts on them are hard to
inspect except when they are removed. One sheared off and threw the
weight against the bubble and bounced down into the cooling fan
causing one helluva racket and a big puff of white smoke. I was in the
middle of a spray turn-around over walnut trees when it happened and
my first thought was I had taken a rocket hit! I did an autorotation
into the walnut orchard not knowing what had happened. Fortunately I
landed in the only area in the entire orchard that allowed it. The
rest of the story is kind of ho-hum.
Lateral weight and balance is of course an issue with nearly any
helicopter and is not necessarily restricted to wider helos. In the
Hiller I think the middle seat is the best in the house! Probably have
in excess of 2000 hrs sitting in it!
Happy New Year
Rocky

Hi Larry
The compensating weights are sticking up on metal bands that are about
1" wide and have square weights on the end. They are located on the
forward upper right of the engine area and nearly directly above and
behind the right seat. They are for easing the weight necessary for
the collective/cyclic input. The thru bolts on them are hard to
inspect except when they are removed. One sheared off and threw the
weight against the bubble and bounced down into the cooling fan
causing one helluva racket and a big puff of white smoke. I was in the
middle of a spray turn-around over walnut trees when it happened and
my first thought was I had taken a rocket hit! I did an autorotation
into the walnut orchard not knowing what had happened. Fortunately I
landed in the only area in the entire orchard that allowed it. The
rest of the story is kind of ho-hum.
Lateral weight and balance is of course an issue with nearly any
helicopter and is not necessarily restricted to wider helos. In the
Hiller I think the middle seat is the best in the house! Probably have
in excess of 2000 hrs sitting in it!
Happy New Year
Rocky

Rocky, thanks for giving me something else that will be very interesting
to look for the next time our local helo guy has his bird out for us to
admire. I try to look at all the details on these great old aircraft but I
don't always know what I'm looking atG Some homebuilts like the Rotorway
Exec require the pilot to move a weight depending on whether the aircraft is
being flown solo or with a passenger. I know much of your work was with very
heavily loaded helos under
extreme density altitude conditions. Did you ever have problems with tanks
not feeding properly that would throw the aircraft dangerously out of
balance? That was really exciting to read about your emergency and how well
you handled it.
Please keep up the interesting experiences if you have the time and thanks
again. Larry

Hi Larry:
The compensating weights are sticking up on metal bands that are about
1" wide and have square weights on the end. They are located on the
forward upper right of the engine area and nearly directly above and
behind the right seat. They are for easing the weight necessary for
the collective/cyclic input. The thru bolts on them are hard to
inspect except when they are removed.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works but those weights you are
describing are not used for collective/cyclic input. According to the
Hiller manual they are for vibration dampening of the cyclic controls.
"Vibration in the cyclic control system is dampened by two damper
assemblies, ine installed on each upper firewall bellcrank. Weights on
the damper assemblies are preadjusted to give the damper a natural
frequency of 690 cpm +/- 10 cpm. Both rectangular and cylindrical
weights are used.

I believe the weights you are describing that pertain to the
collective is the ballast assembly. This is located on top of the
rotor head and has two curved arms that come down on opposite sides of
the rotorhead. In the ends of these tubes weights can be inserted to
provide the appropriate amount of 'pull' when actuating the collective
and to adjust for collective stick 'creep'.

(steve) wrote in message . com...
Hi Larry:
The compensating weights are sticking up on metal bands that are about
1" wide and have square weights on the end. They are located on the
forward upper right of the engine area and nearly directly above and
behind the right seat. They are for easing the weight necessary for
the collective/cyclic input. The thru bolts on them are hard to
inspect except when they are removed.

Not to throw a monkey wrench into the works but those weights you are
describing are not used for collective/cyclic input. According to the
Hiller manual they are for vibration dampening of the cyclic controls.
"Vibration in the cyclic control system is dampened by two damper
assemblies, ine installed on each upper firewall bellcrank. Weights on
the damper assemblies are preadjusted to give the damper a natural
frequency of 690 cpm +/- 10 cpm. Both rectangular and cylindrical
weights are used.

I believe the weights you are describing that pertain to the
collective is the ballast assembly. This is located on top of the
rotor head and has two curved arms that come down on opposite sides of
the rotorhead. In the ends of these tubes weights can be inserted to
provide the appropriate amount of 'pull' when actuating the collective
and to adjust for collective stick 'creep'.


Steve
You are right! Now you see why I was never certified as an A&P! To
further illuminate their location, they always reminded me of the
"rabbit ear" antennas on televisions. That entire rotorhead assembly
was different from the Bell and was a big difference when going from
one to the other in flight control characteristics.
Thanks for the clarification and correction.
Rocky

(Rocky) wrote in
om:

One of the things that still puzzles me is why I have been able to do
the things I have without being in more accidents or without injury
while others have wrecked numerous aircraft with or without death or
injury. There has to be a reason. Anyone have a clue?
Ol Shy & Bashful

Well, they say God takes care of children and fools. I've also been flying
since the 60's, and have never had a serious malfunction. Maybe he takes
better care of some of us than others. Other than that, I don't have a
clue.

--
Regards,

Stan

Stan Gosnell wrote in message ...
(Rocky) wrote in
om:

One of the things that still puzzles me is why I have been able to do
the things I have without being in more accidents or without injury
while others have wrecked numerous aircraft with or without death or
injury. There has to be a reason. Anyone have a clue?
Ol Shy & Bashful

Well, they say God takes care of children and fools. I've also been flying
since the 60's, and have never had a serious malfunction. Maybe he takes
better care of some of us than others. Other than that, I don't have a
clue.
Happy New Year Stan!
I recall Herb "Fish" Salmon at Lockheed? saying he had never
experienced an emergency in all his years of test flying and then,
while he was testing a new "gatling" gun type of weapon in some jet,
he ended up having to eject when the jet tucked under from the recoil.
I'm sure you have seen or know of many instances of pilots cutting off
the tail on a poorly executed auto to touchdown...or was it properly
executed and conditions simply didn't allow for a good landing? That
is what puzzles me. The ones I've had to do ended up with not much
more than paint scratches on the bottom of the skids and brown on the
seat cover. Don't misunderstand me, I don't claim to be ace of the
base by any means. And I know you have flown under some really crappy
conditions in the gulf and elsewhere. Surely in your aviation history
you have observed someone who did everything right and got it all
wrong? And, those who did everything wrong and got it right, or more
correctly, got away with it?
The intent of my post was to draw out pilots like you who can add the
the plethora of info that is out there.
Best Profesional Regards
Rocky

(Rocky) wrote in
om:

Surely in your aviation history
you have observed someone who did everything right and got it all
wrong? And, those who did everything wrong and got it right, or more
correctly, got away with it?

I recall a pilot who didn't get away with it. He was going to do a
maintenance flight, with a mechanic in the left seat. The mechanic was
very heavy, almost 300 lb, but the pilot was maybe 130. The wind was
blowing about 30 knots directly from his rear. He cranked up the 206B, and
started to pick it up to a hover, when the wind got underneath the
horizontal stabilizer and suddenly the ship was on its nose. He was
heading across the ramp, full aft cyclic, but that wasn't enough. He was
doing ok until the pitot tube, which was scraping the concrete, hit a 3/4"
water pipe laid across the concrete, whereupon pieces of the rotor system
went all over hell and half of Texas. One went completely through an FAA
van in the parking lot, and another went almost half a mile across the
airport in the other direction, but no injuries resulted to anyone. He was
fired, and the mechanic quit riding on helicopters. The marks where the
pitot tube scraped across the ramp were visible for years. How the rotors
kept from hitting the ground all that way is a total mystery to me.

--
Regards,

Stan