Power Off Touchdown Autorotation

(SelwayKid) wrote in message . com...
Well it appears this board needs something to stir some activity.


I think its a lack of good training and practice. When no one wants to
do these maneuvers, how can they teach them? If no one practices them,
how can they stay sharp or current?


The gauntlet is tossed down. Are you willing to pick it up and
challenge?

I'll be willing to take up that challenge, and on one point I will
agree
with you, full down auto's are not taught at the Private level. That
being
said I have to disagree with you on the point of them not being taught
and
practiced. I am presently working on my commercial and CFI ratings
and have
been warned of the oncoming necessity of learning the full down auto.
I'm not
trying to stir the pot here, because I wholeheartedly agree with you
on the
point of needing to be trained to do these manouvers. My best guess
on the
reasoning behind the lack of training private students to do full
downs is a
combination of fear of damaging the helicopter, and the simple lack
of experience of a student pilot. Not to mention that many CFI's are
CFI's only
because they HAVE to be to get their hours to move on to A REAL JOB as
they
would see it. I am looking forward to training for mine as this will
much more
realistically simulate an engine out situation. Hey, thanks for
stirring up
life!


Get in the air, no matter how you get yourself up there!

(Wayne) wrote in message . com...
(SelwayKid) wrote in message . com...
Well it appears this board needs something to stir some activity.


I think its a lack of good training and practice. When no one wants to
do these maneuvers, how can they teach them? If no one practices them,
how can they stay sharp or current?


The gauntlet is tossed down. Are you willing to pick it up and
challenge?

I'll be willing to take up that challenge, and on one point I will
agree
with you, full down auto's are not taught at the Private level. That
being
said I have to disagree with you on the point of them not being taught
and
practiced. I am presently working on my commercial and CFI ratings
and have
been warned of the oncoming necessity of learning the full down auto.
I'm not
trying to stir the pot here, because I wholeheartedly agree with you
on the
point of needing to be trained to do these manouvers. My best guess
on the
reasoning behind the lack of training private students to do full
downs is a
combination of fear of damaging the helicopter, and the simple lack
of experience of a student pilot. Not to mention that many CFI's are
CFI's only
because they HAVE to be to get their hours to move on to A REAL JOB as
they
would see it. I am looking forward to training for mine as this will
much more
realistically simulate an engine out situation. Hey, thanks for
stirring up
life!

Wayne
Of course a student pilot with low experience will have a hard time
doing touchdown autos but they had a hard time learning hovering autos
too didn't they? Seems to me the actuals are easier than the practice.
I can't tell you why that is so, but I'm not the only experienced
pilot to say that.
A lot of my helicopter time is down low doing crop spraying and
working the machine to its full capability. That being the case,
perhaps I am too demanding of others without remembering they don't
have the opportunity to do the kind of stretching the envelope flying
we do in aerial application. For example, in a given hour of spraying,
we'll spend on average :15-20 seconds straight and level at about 3-5'
above the crop, then make a pull up and turnaround to start the next
spray run keeping within a 2' track from pass to pass. We'll make
approximately 200 pull-ups and turnarounds every hour with at least
half of them being in close proximity to obstructions like wires,
structures, trees, fences, equipment and other things that can hurt
you. On average you'll make 10 gross weight takeoffs with little or no
wind and generally high temps, either from the top of a nurse rig
truck, or from the ground. I could go on and on....
Still, I maintain the skills are being eroded by lack of training or
practice except by a very few (comparatively speaking). The
instructors at most factory schools are doing full on autos daily and
not bending machines. What does that say? Practice.Some of the most
fun autos I've done were touchdowns on floats to the water.
As for spins in phyxed wing, the first spins I ever did were on my
first solo back in the late 50's in a Taylorcraft (taildragger for you
rotorheads!) It was no big deal then, and its no big deal now. Same
thing holds true for many CFI's being afraid to do them because of
lousy training and no practice.
Of course the insurance industry will drive most of what is done in
training and there is going to be a steady dumbing down of skills
which will only make the situation worse as time goes on. Ask that
question of nearly any old gray haired pilot with 18-20,000 hours and
I'll bet you get a similar answer. That has been the case at
conventions and seminars I've attended over the past 5-10 years.
Thanks for your response. I hope more weigh in and some discussions
get going.
Ol Shy & Bashful


Get in the air, no matter how you get yourself up there!

"SelwayKid" wrote in message
om...
Of course the insurance industry will drive most of what is done in
training and there is going to be a steady dumbing down of skills
which will only make the situation worse as time goes on. Ask that
question of nearly any old gray haired pilot with 18-20,000 hours and
I'll bet you get a similar answer. That has been the case at
conventions and seminars I've attended over the past 5-10 years.
Thanks for your response. I hope more weigh in and some discussions
get going.
Ol Shy & Bashful

Isn't that the truth! I got my Pvt license in 1979 and even then, spins
were not a required skill to get your license. Cessna reduced the maximum
flap settings on their 152's and 172's from 40 degrees to 30 in the late
70's. Why? From what I heard, is was because these aircraft wouldn't climb
with full flaps deployed and pilots were wadding them up on a full power
go-around because they "weren't" reducing the flap settings and establishing
a positive rate of climb. Rather than fix the pilot, they adapted the
aircraft. It just seems to be the status quo these days. Rather than
holding individuals to a higher standard, they dumb down the standard.

My understanding with rotorcraft and autorotations is that, even CFI
applicants are not required to demonstrate an autorotation to the ground on
their check ride. Can you folks confirm whether that's true or not? I'm
not sure I'd want a CFI teaching me that "hadn't" put the aircraft I'm
training in all the way down in an auto.

Fly Safe,
Steve R.