Power Off Touchdown Autorotation

On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 22:00:10 -0000, "Beav"
wrote:


"SelwayKid" wrote in message
. com...
"Hennie Roets" wrote in message
...
I know this is a contraversial subject but I had the experience to do
a full down auto in the R22. Maybe I was lucky because I did not
damage the heli and did not even slide on. It was a bit of a rough
landing but otherwise ok. I have a total of apprixmately 300 hours
heli time. Enstrom, Mini 500, R22 etc.
I was never taught to do a full down but Rocky might add some comments
to what I want to say.
I think you should FLY THE HELI UNTILL YOU ARE ON THE GROUND
Just remember even with the low rotor rpm horn sounding you still have
control.
In the R22 you have still got control at 80% rotor rpm but I do not think
it
can be
streched any further.

I might have been lucky with mine but it is a lot easier to just land the
heli than to
do a power recovery.

Regards

Hennie
*****************************
Hennie
One of the things that prompted my original post was recalling that at
most of the helicopter repair shops I have visited, you can nearly
always find a tail boom that was chopped off by a hard landing. I have
been puzzled by that for years and always asked how it happened. In
most cases it was the direct result of a flawed pilot technique in a
full down auto, either actual or practice. I could never figure out
why it happened so often and came to the conclusion it was from poor
pilot technique that came from poor training or just sloppy flying.
With all that I have done with different machines and without further
damage has me wondering. Don't misunderstand me...I'm not the ace of
the base by any means. Did I get lucky and get some superb instruction
(compared to today), or was it just luck?

Rocky, as I never reached the auto stage in full sized heli's (health
defeated me there) I can't say for definite what causes boom strikes, but on
the RC models I've been teaching people to fly for years (well 25 of them)
the boom killer is the cyclic stick position when the skids make contact
with the ground. If there's even a TOUCH of back stick held in after the
flare, the boom is a thing of the past, but a touch of forward cyclic at
that point stops even a badly cacked up auto from turing into a badly cacked
up boom. In fact, some of the guys I've taught to auto do the most
tremendous slide-ons imaginable and don't break anything.

This also applies to powered landings too. No back stick or you've no boom.


Beav


Beav, it really depends on the helicopter on how much aft cyclic if
any at all. In all the one's that I fly you keep a slight aft cyclic.
Most helicopters mast is tilted forward (an A-Star is 2 degree's if I
recall right), and any forward cyclic you go skidding for a pretty
good distance. Not something you really want. A little aft and you can
stop in 5-10 feet. And all this without the tailboom getting hit.

I bet the ones that the tailboom are getting whacked are mainly two
bladed copters, low RPM (bad flair), and the pilot has a hefty aft
cyclic when he is hitting the runway. And I bet the decent hasn't been
slowed down like it should have been.

-Mark

hellothere.adelphia.net wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Dec 2004 22:00:10 -0000, "Beav"
wrote:


"SelwayKid" wrote in message
.com...
"Hennie Roets" wrote in message
...
I know this is a contraversial subject but I had the experience to do
a full down auto in the R22. Maybe I was lucky because I did not
damage the heli and did not even slide on. It was a bit of a rough
landing but otherwise ok. I have a total of apprixmately 300 hours
heli time. Enstrom, Mini 500, R22 etc.
I was never taught to do a full down but Rocky might add some comments
to what I want to say.
I think you should FLY THE HELI UNTILL YOU ARE ON THE GROUND
Just remember even with the low rotor rpm horn sounding you still have
control.
In the R22 you have still got control at 80% rotor rpm but I do not
think
it
can be
streched any further.

I might have been lucky with mine but it is a lot easier to just land
the
heli than to
do a power recovery.

Regards

Hennie
*****************************
Hennie
One of the things that prompted my original post was recalling that at
most of the helicopter repair shops I have visited, you can nearly
always find a tail boom that was chopped off by a hard landing. I have
been puzzled by that for years and always asked how it happened. In
most cases it was the direct result of a flawed pilot technique in a
full down auto, either actual or practice. I could never figure out
why it happened so often and came to the conclusion it was from poor
pilot technique that came from poor training or just sloppy flying.
With all that I have done with different machines and without further
damage has me wondering. Don't misunderstand me...I'm not the ace of
the base by any means. Did I get lucky and get some superb instruction
(compared to today), or was it just luck?

Rocky, as I never reached the auto stage in full sized heli's (health
defeated me there) I can't say for definite what causes boom strikes, but
on
the RC models I've been teaching people to fly for years (well 25 of them)
the boom killer is the cyclic stick position when the skids make contact
with the ground. If there's even a TOUCH of back stick held in after the
flare, the boom is a thing of the past, but a touch of forward cyclic at
that point stops even a badly cacked up auto from turing into a badly
cacked
up boom. In fact, some of the guys I've taught to auto do the most
tremendous slide-ons imaginable and don't break anything.

This also applies to powered landings too. No back stick or you've no
boom.


Beav


Beav, it really depends on the helicopter on how much aft cyclic if
any at all. In all the one's that I fly you keep a slight aft cyclic.
Most helicopters mast is tilted forward (an A-Star is 2 degree's if I
recall right), and any forward cyclic you go skidding for a pretty
good distance. Not something you really want. A little aft and you can
stop in 5-10 feet. And all this without the tailboom getting hit.

That forward tilt on the mast would make up for the difference I would
imagine Mark, and it's something I forgot about. (I know the 206 has a
forward AND a sideways tilt built in, but it slipped my mind). I didin't
know the Squirrel (A-Star) did though. Thanks for the info.

I bet the ones that the tailboom are getting whacked are mainly two
bladed copters, low RPM (bad flair), and the pilot has a hefty aft
cyclic when he is hitting the runway. And I bet the decent hasn't been
slowed down like it should have been.

Most of the models are two bladers, with blades that are free to move within
the grips. If these slow down, the lag is sufficient that a handful of
collective can see a blade hooked under the vertical stab, and that's not
even REALLY slowed down. Even at these rpm, the blades are still lifting and
no out of the ordinary coning is happening. Mind you, I bet you full size
guys would LOVE the blade rigidity that we RC guys have. We can pick up the
whole machine by the blade tips:-) They don't flex much as you can guess:-)

Beav