Unintentional fully-developed spins...

Marc Ramsey wrote "OK, I'm curious. How many of you have had to recover
from a fully
developed (greater than one turn), unintentional spin that occurred
during normal non-aerobatic flight?" [snip]

Not me personally, but I have known, or known of, several pilots who
did. Most died, after cable breaks, mismanaged aftermath, and spins
into the ground from about 600 feet. Of two who survived, one couldn't
explain why he didn't effect prompt recovery - has since given up
gliding. The other I referred to earlier - didn't realise it was a
spin, thought tail had come off.

You may not get many first person replies, because those who did are
mostly no longer with us. I would hope our training regimes strive to
prevent too many more, not only by Eric Greenwell's 4, 3 and 2 (which I
entirely support) but also by 1, time and again, until people no longer
fail to realise what they have done when they somehow skip over 4, 3,
and 2, stop panicking, and can recover.

Chris N.

Chris Nicholas wrote:

Marc Ramsey wrote:
"OK, I'm curious. How many of you have had to recover
from a fully developed (greater than one turn), unintentional
spin that occurred during normal non-aerobatic flight?" [snip]

Not me personally, but I have known, or known of, several pilots who
did. Most died, after cable breaks, mismanaged aftermath, and spins
into the ground from about 600 feet. Of two who survived, one couldn't
explain why he didn't effect prompt recovery - has since given up
gliding. The other I referred to earlier - didn't realise it was a
spin, thought tail had come off.

What I asked is if anyone here has properly recognized a spin entry,
immediately attempted recovery, and not been able to do so in well under
a turn. For my own education, I would like to know the circumstances.

You may not get many first person replies, because those who did are
mostly no longer with us. I would hope our training regimes strive to
prevent too many more, not only by Eric Greenwell's 4, 3 and 2 (which
I entirely support) but also by 1, time and again, until people no
longer fail to realise what they have done when they somehow skip over
4, 3, and 2, stop panicking, and can recover.

I feel that I, personally, benefit a great deal more from practicing to
properly recognize and recover from a spin entry immediately, than I do
from practicing initiating a spin, holding it for a few turns, then
recovering.

Marc

In article ,
Marc Ramsey wrote:

Chris Nicholas wrote:

Marc Ramsey wrote:
"OK, I'm curious. How many of you have had to recover
from a fully developed (greater than one turn), unintentional
spin that occurred during normal non-aerobatic flight?" [snip]


In slightly more than 1000 hours in all types of soaring, in ships
ranging from old wood, old metal, old glass, and new glass, I have never
had any inadvertant spin go more than 1/2 turn. That was in a 1-26 that
went "over the top" with me due to a terrrifically strong gust in a
turbulent thermal. Took me a sec to realize it was a spin entry and not
just the gust overpowering my aileron control.

I have witnessed two fully developed unintentional spins. Both by the
same pilot in two different ships. First was in a Ka-6 at altitude. I
was cruising over to join this fellow in a thermal when he just tucked
and spun two rotations before affecting recovery. He made a rather
excited radio call about the glider "spinning out from under him". I
chose not to join him in that or any other thermal. The second I saw
from the ground. The same guy was returning to the airport too low in an
SGS 1-23D. On entry to downwind (estimated to be about 700 agl), the
nose dropped sharply and the glider rotated a bit more than one full
rotation. We all thought he was going to buy the farm on that one.
Fortunately, he recovered and pulled back to wings level with about 200
feet to spare (we lost him behind the trees from our viewing angle). He
managed to land on the airport but didn't make the runway. He stopped
flying gliders after that.

"Marc Ramsey" wrote in message
om...
Chris Nicholas wrote:

Marc Ramsey wrote:
"OK, I'm curious. How many of you have had to recover
from a fully developed (greater than one turn), unintentional
spin that occurred during normal non-aerobatic flight?" [snip]

Not me personally, but I have known, or known of, several pilots who
did. Most died, after cable breaks, mismanaged aftermath, and spins
into the ground from about 600 feet. Of two who survived, one couldn't
explain why he didn't effect prompt recovery - has since given up
gliding. The other I referred to earlier - didn't realise it was a
spin, thought tail had come off.

What I asked is if anyone here has properly recognized a spin entry,
immediately attempted recovery, and not been able to do so in well under
a turn. For my own education, I would like to know the circumstances.

Not yet

You may not get many first person replies, because those who did are
mostly no longer with us. I would hope our training regimes strive to
prevent too many more, not only by Eric Greenwell's 4, 3 and 2 (which
I entirely support) but also by 1, time and again, until people no
longer fail to realise what they have done when they somehow skip over
4, 3, and 2, stop panicking, and can recover.

I feel that I, personally, benefit a great deal more from practicing to
properly recognize and recover from a spin entry immediately, than I do
from practicing initiating a spin, holding it for a few turns, then
recovering.

I get occasional incipient entries while thermaling, but was, I believe,
properly trained to recognize and respond appropriately, so none have
developed into full spins inadvertantly. I do practice this regularly also
and do a 1-2 turn spin from time to time.

The Brits had a training concept when I initially learned to soar, 'recovery
from unusual attitudes'. The instructor would but the glider in an awkward
attitude and allow the student to recover to straight and level. Could be
nose up, down, cross controls, whatever. The important part was the proper
input to get things back in control.

I recall one odd day when flying my SHK not too far off the Anglia coast. I
think the air had a bit of shear. I went to turn to the left, but the
glider definitely wanted to roll right. Speed was fine, but I had the
distinct impression that the air was rolling or in vertical shear in a
clockwise direction. After a few seconds things went back to normal, but
for a bit I thought I'd flick over the top of the turn and I really wasn't
looking forward to it.

Frank Whiteley


Frank