Why is Soaring declining

Martin Gregorie wrote

Pilots like them because they're fun to fly. Light on the controls,
turns tight, thermals on a fart. Won't penetrate worth a damn, but if
the winds are light or you're going downwind it's a hoot. Think Ka-8,
only the wings are shorter (and consequently the glide ratio is lower)
and the control feel not quite as good.

I've got to say that our L-13 doesn't cost a whole lot more, but
provides a second seat. If it was only EASY to take apart
and trailer, it'd be hands down better than a 1-26 :P
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Mark Boyd
Avenal, California, USA

(Mark James Boyd) wrote
I've got to say that our L-13 doesn't cost a whole lot more, but
provides a second seat. If it was only EASY to take apart
and trailer, it'd be hands down better than a 1-26 :P

I've flown an L-13 as well, and even by comparison with a 1-26, never
mind a Ka-8, the handling can best be described as truck-like. Also,
I'm not sure the second seat is a feature. It's good for new pilots
to get into a single-seater (once they solo the two-seater, of
course). Builds self-reliance and keeps instructors honest about
teaching one to fly gliders, not L-13's or 2-33's.

Michael

The L-13 is a great trainer, especially for spin training. Compared to a
1-26 it is certainly less nimble, but weighs about 2 X as much. The L-13
will take a student through any maneuver they need to learn about before you
let them solo.

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
(Mark James Boyd) wrote
I've got to say that our L-13 doesn't cost a whole lot more, but
provides a second seat. If it was only EASY to take apart
and trailer, it'd be hands down better than a 1-26 :P

I've flown an L-13 as well, and even by comparison with a 1-26, never
mind a Ka-8, the handling can best be described as truck-like. Also,
I'm not sure the second seat is a feature. It's good for new pilots
to get into a single-seater (once they solo the two-seater, of
course). Builds self-reliance and keeps instructors honest about
teaching one to fly gliders, not L-13's or 2-33's.

Michael

f.blair wrote:
The L-13 is a great trainer, especially for spin training. Compared to a
1-26 it is certainly less nimble, but weighs about 2 X as much. The L-13
will take a student through any maneuver they need to learn about before you
let them solo.

"Michael" wrote in message
om...

(Mark James Boyd) wrote

I've got to say that our L-13 doesn't cost a whole lot more, but
provides a second seat. If it was only EASY to take apart
and trailer, it'd be hands down better than a 1-26 :P

I've flown an L-13 as well, and even by comparison with a 1-26, never
mind a Ka-8, the handling can best be described as truck-like. Also,
I'm not sure the second seat is a feature. It's good for new pilots
to get into a single-seater (once they solo the two-seater, of
course). Builds self-reliance and keeps instructors honest about
teaching one to fly gliders, not L-13's or 2-33's.

I would not lump the L-13 and the 2-33 together in the "non-glider"
class! In my opinion, based on a lot of instructing in the L13 and
thousands of hours in high performance gliders, is that the L13 flies
and handles like a "real" glider. There is a difference in _degree_, of
course. It is heavier on the controls and slower to respond than a 15
meter glider, but not any slower than my 18 meter glider (which is also
noticeably heavier on the controls than a 15 meter glider).

The 2-33s I have flown did not remind me of the high performance gliders
I am accustomed to flying. Again, in my opinion, it seems to be in a
different class, rather than just different in degree, like the L13.

In our area, the L13 has plenty of performance to make cross-country
flights, but the thought of retrieving it from a field discourages most
people from trying.
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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric Greenwell wrote:

The 2-33s I have flown did not remind me of the high performance gliders
I am accustomed to flying. Again, in my opinion, it seems to be in a
different class, rather than just different in degree, like the L13.

Granted, I only have one 2-33 flight, but I have to agree here. The
2-33 is a world of difference from a modern high-performance glider.

Jeremy
N304GT

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...
f.blair wrote:
The L-13 is a great trainer, especially for spin training. Compared to a
1-26 it is certainly less nimble, but weighs about 2 X as much. The L-13
will take a student through any maneuver they need to learn about before you
let them solo.

In our area, the L13 has plenty of performance to make cross-country
flights, but the thought of retrieving it from a field discourages most
people from trying.


I think I remember a team that took it apart, or even put it together in 12 Minutes!

Dieter B

soarski wrote:

Eric Greenwell wrote in message
...

In our area, the L13 has plenty of performance to make
cross-country flights, but the thought of retrieving it from a
field discourages most people from trying.



I think I remember a team that took it apart, or even put it together
in 12 Minutes!

Mostly, people think of how difficult it's going to be to carry the
parts off the field. Even a good trailer with good fittings can't help
much in the middle of a soft plowed field.

Some places the aerotow accessible airports are close enough together
that it is practical to stay within easy reach of one of them, but the
club pilots I've known were still not keen on the idea.

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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

soarski wrote:

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...

f.blair wrote:

The L-13 is a great trainer, especially for spin training. Compared to a
1-26 it is certainly less nimble, but weighs about 2 X as much. The L-13
will take a student through any maneuver they need to learn about before you
let them solo.


In our area, the L13 has plenty of performance to make cross-country
flights, but the thought of retrieving it from a field discourages most
people from trying.



I think I remember a team that took it apart, or even put it together in 12 Minutes!

Dieter B
Having dismantled and re-assembled our much loved (and hated) L13 repeatedly I
must note that I have done a couple of very conservative cross countries in the
L13. But the thought of having to take it apart in a field in the dark and get
it secure on the trailer, and then re-assemble it again is enough to put any but
the most hardened masochist off. 12 minutes is about what it generally takes us
to line up the wings. Maybe we need practise, as we generally avoid rigging
anything, there is space in the hangar for them all.

Lots of fun for gentle aerobatics, and a good trainer but easy to rig she is not.

Eric Greenwell wrote
I would not lump the L-13 and the 2-33 together in the "non-glider"
class!

You're missing the point. I'm not saying either one is a "non-glider"
but something completely different. You can teach a student to fly
gliders in general, or you can teach him to fly only the particular
glider he is flying. The latter is not a winning strategy if the
student is going to advance in the sport. It's not really common in
soaring instruction either, but some instructors are transition pilots
from power, where this practice IS common.

There is a skill set that a pilot must learn if he is to be able to
check himself out in a new aircraft. As a rule, glider pilots learn
this skill set because single seaters are common in soaring, and the
instructors realize that the skill must be taught. In power, single
seaters are a rarity and many power pilots never really learn the
skill, and need to be checked out in each individual make and model
they fly.

I have nothing against the L-23; it's a perfectly acceptable primary
trainer. However, for soaring flight I think the 1-26 (or better yet
a Ka-8) makes a far better glider.

Michael

Michael wrote:

Eric Greenwell wrote

I would not lump the L-13 and the 2-33 together in the "non-glider"
class!


You're missing the point. I'm not saying either one is a "non-glider"
but something completely different. You can teach a student to fly
gliders in general, or you can teach him to fly only the particular
glider he is flying. The latter is not a winning strategy if the
student is going to advance in the sport. It's not really common in
soaring instruction either, but some instructors are transition pilots
from power, where this practice IS common.

There is a skill set that a pilot must learn if he is to be able to
check himself out in a new aircraft.

What is this skill set? I'm not aware of anything specific along these
lines from the instructor/instruction manuals I've read. Generally, once
I'd trained a pilot to fly in a Blanik, he had most of the skills needed
to fly one of the usual single seaters.

As a rule, glider pilots learn
this skill set because single seaters are common in soaring, and the
instructors realize that the skill must be taught. In power, single
seaters are a rarity and many power pilots never really learn the
skill, and need to be checked out in each individual make and model
they fly.

I have nothing against the L-23; it's a perfectly acceptable primary
trainer. However, for soaring flight I think the 1-26 (or better yet
a Ka-8) makes a far better glider.


Apparently, I'm still missing the point: why is a 1-26 or ka-8 far
better for soaring flight? My point was that the L13 is a good glider,
capable of soaring and doing good cross country flights. It certainly is
better at cross country flying than a 1-26, and similar in ability to
the Ka-8.


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Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA