How safe is the sport of soaring today

ojunk (Robertmudd1u) wrote in message ...
With the increase of glider accidents these days, just how safe is
this sport? There is always a element of risk associated with flying
but how does soaring compare with other forms of aviation or
motorsports?

This looks like a troll to me. Lets be careful about what we say.

Here in the USA the media is out to paint general aviation in a bad light. See
the AOPA web site. We should not give them any help.

Robert Mudd

Robert, your comments are certainly true regarding the media, but no
troll here. The intent of my original post was to secure an opinion of
other pilots with much more knowledge than myself regarding the
general safety of the sport. As a low time pilot (100 hrs.)I'm just
trying to listen to those out there with all the experience to assist
with my decision to continue in the sport.

Hi Mot --

Could you give us your critique of the Gantenbrink essay? Does it cover
most of the bases for you, or do you have further concerns?

From the standpoint of a low time pilot the essay (and the other
material on the DG/LS Safety site) may not be quite the all-purpose
material I thought it was.

Thanks,

Bob Johnson

Mot wrote:

ojunk (Robertmudd1u) wrote in message ...
With the increase of glider accidents these days, just how safe is
this sport? There is always a element of risk associated with flying
but how does soaring compare with other forms of aviation or
motorsports?

This looks like a troll to me. Lets be careful about what we say.

Here in the USA the media is out to paint general aviation in a bad light. See
the AOPA web site. We should not give them any help.

Robert Mudd

Robert, your comments are certainly true regarding the media, but no
troll here. The intent of my original post was to secure an opinion of
other pilots with much more knowledge than myself regarding the
general safety of the sport. As a low time pilot (100 hrs.)I'm just
trying to listen to those out there with all the experience to assist
with my decision to continue in the sport.

Every year this (or a similar) thread shows up on RAS. Basically, it
is "Oh Muh God, people are DIEING!

Step back and take a deep breath; has anything fundamentally changed
in the sport? I don't think so. Soaring has its hazards and that will
not change. If you want to reduce your risk: stop flying! Clearly, the
sport would be better off if some of the pilots did this. Cheer up,
Lennie the Lurker did!

Soaring requires a higher degree of pilot proficiency than powered
flight does. Nothing is going to change that, although technology
might help to a small degree, i.e. collision avoidance devices. Most
accidents, however, don't involve this (like the fatality at Air
Sailing).

The wild card in all of this is how will each individual pilot react
to a real emergency. Sometimes training can simulate an emergency, but
the student will always think, in the back of his/hers mind, that the
instructor will bail him/her out if he/she screws up.

I don't like going to friends funerals anymore than the next guy, but
I'm not willng to give up the sport to eliminate the possibility.

Tom Seim
Richland, WA

The "Cheer up" part... I almost fell off of my chair laughing

My question is... to be a safe pilot you need to be able to react
with the (right stuff) in a choke situation. How do you determine
that quality in an individual?

No matter how good of a technical pilot a person may be... it is the
correct reaction in a "Panic" situation that can make the difference
between a safe pilot and an unfortunate individual.

and then of course there are the deaf blind and stupid folks that run
on luck.

Steve

On 14 May 2004 21:29:36 -0700, (Tom Seim) wrote:

Every year this (or a similar) thread shows up on RAS. Basically, it
is "Oh Muh God, people are DIEING!

Step back and take a deep breath; has anything fundamentally changed
in the sport? I don't think so. Soaring has its hazards and that will
not change. If you want to reduce your risk: stop flying! Clearly, the
sport would be better off if some of the pilots did this. Cheer up,
Lennie the Lurker did!

Soaring requires a higher degree of pilot proficiency than powered
flight does. Nothing is going to change that, although technology
might help to a small degree, i.e. collision avoidance devices. Most
accidents, however, don't involve this (like the fatality at Air
Sailing).

The wild card in all of this is how will each individual pilot react
to a real emergency. Sometimes training can simulate an emergency, but
the student will always think, in the back of his/hers mind, that the
instructor will bail him/her out if he/she screws up.

I don't like going to friends funerals anymore than the next guy, but
I'm not willng to give up the sport to eliminate the possibility.

Tom Seim
Richland, WA

Steve / Sperry wrote:
The "Cheer up" part... I almost fell off of my chair laughing

My question is... to be a safe pilot you need to be able to react
with the (right stuff) in a choke situation. How do you determine
that quality in an individual?

Or, as that famous saying goes, more or less: use your superior
judgement to avoid those "choke" situations. Lots of people fly with
smaller margins than they realize, and sometimes they run out of
margins. It's not just about reacting properly in an emergency, but also
about avoiding it in the first place.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Tom Seim wrote
Soaring requires a higher degree of pilot proficiency than powered
flight does. Nothing is going to change that, although technology
might help to a small degree, i.e. collision avoidance devices. Most
accidents, however, don't involve this (like the fatality at Air
Sailing).

Where did you get your information about the accident at Air sailing, Tom?

My understanding is it involved the first flight of the year in a fairly new
bird (ASW-20) and a fairly low time pilot (500hrs). Rope broke because he was
all over the sky, trying to stay in position. Then he was unable to execute a
180
without-------------------------------------------------------------------
---------we all know the rest of this scenario.
JJ Sinclair

(JJ Sinclair) wrote:

My understanding is it involved the first
flight of the year in a fairly new bird (ASW-20)
and a fairly low time pilot (500hrs).

I know there are people with many more, but ... 500 hours *in a glider* is
considered "low time"?

I know there are people with many more, but ... 500 hours *in a glider* is
considered "low time"?

When I had 500 hours in gliders, I understood just how much I didn't know.
JJ Sinclair

wrote:
When I had 500 hours in gliders, I understood
just how much I didn't know.

shrug I wasn't suggesting it means one would know all there is to know ... no
matter what number you're at, there's always a huge element of unknown, isn't
there? Still, at 500 hours, unless you were asleep, how much *did* you know?
With some flights being only 10 or 15 minutes (or even less), 500 hours isn't a
fair chunk of experience? And of at least some importance would be how that
time was spaced over x-number of years, wouldn it? Isn't the danger in the
complacent attitude that having reached ANY arbitrary number, that you suddenly
you know more than you don't?

Shirley,
I agree with JJ. A total of 500 hours is pretty low time to be soaring
in strong weather conditions at a high density altitude airport with
few reasonably safe landable areas near the home field.
One of my biggest concerns as a former instructor was pilots who so
intently focused on getting back to the home runway that they would
fly over very safe fields - getting way too low in the process. IMHO
instructors just don't practice enough off-airport landings with new
cross country pilots. We leave it to the pilots to learn this skill on
their own....If a pilot (of any experience level) is too worried about
trying to land in a reasonably safe off-airport field and insists on
streaching it to get back to the home runway they are asking for
trouble!
I understand the fear of damaging one's sailplane in an off-field
landing - it happens. But I would rather risk dinging my sailplane
than to risk serious injury trying to it stretch getting home. I have
made over a dozen outlandings within 2 miles of my "home" runway as a
result of my belief!
I know nothing of the details about the accident at Air Sailing.
Never-the-less I would be willing to speculate that, even knowing the
terrain around Air Sailing, had an average 500 hour pilot elected to
land "straight ahead" after the low altitude rope break, he or she
most likely would have walked away from the landing.