Bipolar/Schizoaffective Disorder and Soaring

B. Iten wrote:

Here is the scoop. I spoke with my medical flight examiner some time
ago about the use of medications that treat bi-polar syndrome and
taking them while operating an aircraft or glider. He was not 100%
sure on the ruling even though it is stated on the FAA's medical pages
that those drugs used to treat bi-polar syndrome are not allowed.

Brian,

I am having trouble finding this FAA list of banned medications. Could you
point me to it? A URL or specific section in the FAR would help.

Thanks.

-Doug

Doug,

You're having trouble finding the FAA medication list, because it doesn't
exist. Various groups, such as AOPA and Virtual Flight Surgeon's at
http://www.aviationmedicine.com , have UNOFFICIAL lists of approved and
disapproved medications, but they are swags which don't bear the approval of
the FAA. All such unofficial lists contain errors, because the FAA policies
are in such a constant state of re-review.

The FAA won't publish such a list because their internal, secret, but
official list changes so frequently (new drugs to either be approved or
banned; old previously approved drugs with newly found side effects, which
are now banned; etc).

Groups trying to publish such lists do so by submitting a waiver request
for, say, Zestril (a blood pressure medication). When it comes back
approved, they put zestril on the list. Then they submit someone for
depression with, say, Zoloft. It comes back disapproved, and they put Zoloft
on the no-go list. Over time, a rough approximation of FAA medication policy
is built up, but it is never 100% accurate.

Hope this clears things up.

Bullwinkle

On 6/12/04 3:24 AM, in article , "Doug
Hoffman" wrote:

B. Iten wrote:

Here is the scoop. I spoke with my medical flight examiner some time
ago about the use of medications that treat bi-polar syndrome and
taking them while operating an aircraft or glider. He was not 100%
sure on the ruling even though it is stated on the FAA's medical pages
that those drugs used to treat bi-polar syndrome are not allowed.

Brian,

I am having trouble finding this FAA list of banned medications. Could you
point me to it? A URL or specific section in the FAR would help.

Thanks.

-Doug

Thanks. Yes, that does help a great deal. And I'm not at all surprised
that this whole topic is a very grey area (that topic being piloting gliders
and medical conditions and medications and so forth).

My work involves dealing with US and state government regulations in a
totally different discipline (motor vehicle emissions), but my experience
there has also been the government regs are often very unclear and subject
to a great deal of interpretation.

Off this topic but sort of related: I know this is stating the obvious, but
I'll do it anyway. Even if someone has no illness and is taking no
medications, it could very well be that at some given times they are not
"fit to fly". Reasons include mental duress due to work or personal
reasons, lack of sleep, and so forth. I'll not get into the old age issue
as I believe that has been adequately covered on r.a.s. before.

Thanks again.

-Doug

Bullwinkle wrote:


Doug,

You're having trouble finding the FAA medication list, because it doesn't
exist. Various groups, such as AOPA and Virtual Flight Surgeon's at
http://www.aviationmedicine.com , have UNOFFICIAL lists of approved and
disapproved medications, but they are swags which don't bear the approval of
the FAA. All such unofficial lists contain errors, because the FAA policies
are in such a constant state of re-review.

The FAA won't publish such a list because their internal, secret, but
official list changes so frequently (new drugs to either be approved or
banned; old previously approved drugs with newly found side effects, which
are now banned; etc).

Groups trying to publish such lists do so by submitting a waiver request
for, say, Zestril (a blood pressure medication). When it comes back
approved, they put zestril on the list. Then they submit someone for
depression with, say, Zoloft. It comes back disapproved, and they put Zoloft
on the no-go list. Over time, a rough approximation of FAA medication policy
is built up, but it is never 100% accurate.

Hope this clears things up.

Bullwinkle

On 6/12/04 3:24 AM, in article , "Doug
Hoffman" wrote:

B. Iten wrote:

Here is the scoop. I spoke with my medical flight examiner some time
ago about the use of medications that treat bi-polar syndrome and
taking them while operating an aircraft or glider. He was not 100%
sure on the ruling even though it is stated on the FAA's medical pages
that those drugs used to treat bi-polar syndrome are not allowed.

Brian,

I am having trouble finding this FAA list of banned medications. Could you
point me to it? A URL or specific section in the FAR would help.

Thanks.

-Doug

Still it seems a group such as the SSA would have had to have run into the
question so often from power pilots having been denied medicals FAA would have
had to give an answer.

Started a new thread on the topic by the way to broaden the question to any
drug/condition

"DL152279546231" wrote in message
...
Still it seems a group such as the SSA would have had to have run into the
question so often from power pilots having been denied medicals FAA would
have
had to give an answer.

Started a new thread on the topic by the way to broaden the question to
any
drug/condition

I have asked this question of senior AME's and the answer is that there is
no difference in medical standards, just in the means of certifying those
standards are met. A glider pilot may "self-certify" but a power pilot
needs an AME to do the certification. If a pilot knows or has reason to
know that a condition exists that would prevent the issuance of a 3rd class
medical then self-certification is not an option.

We glider pilots have a major privilege in self-certification. It is not
too much of a reach to say that if the privilege is abused, we may lose it.

Bill Daniels

If you are suggesting that a glider pilot, in order to fly, must "self
certify" that he or she meets
the requirements of a class III physical, it may be the dumbest thing that
I've ever heard.
Even dumber than doing spin training at 800 ft AGL. (Which now seems to
have been rescinded, thank goodness.)
Note that I am not saying that you are dumb, merely that you are saying dumb
things.

The guiding regulation is 14 CFR 61.53(b) and yes, 91.17 applies.

Your AME is incorrect; you do not have to "self certify" anything, you
merely must abide by 61.53(b).
If you were required to meet the medical rules of a Class III physical, the
FARs would say so.

That means that, if you have a cold and can't clear your ears, you shouldn't
fly. If you have cut your hand
and are unable to handle the controls, you shouldn't fly. If you have
multiple personality disorder and your personality of the day is suicidal,
you shouldn't fly.

Note how 61.53(b) differs substantially from 61.53(a). It differs for a
reason you, the pilot, make the determination that you are fit to fly, not
your AME, not the FAA and, thankfully, not those of you who choose to
rewrite the regulations to conform to whatever predjudice you have at the
moment.

The CARs, FARs and now CFRs were conceived of as being permissive, that is,
if it is not expressly forbidden, it is presumed to be OK to do. If you
have a rating and/or pilot license of any kind, it is presumed that you
intend not to kill yourself or others.

So be careful out there, don't go rewriting the regulations and don't give
the FAA any reason to reexamine the regulations as they stand.

Allan




"I have asked this question of senior AME's and the answer is that there is
no difference in medical standards, just in the means of certifying those
standards are met. A glider pilot may "self-certify" but a power pilot
needs an AME to do the certification. If a pilot knows or has reason to
know that a condition exists that would prevent the issuance of a 3rd class
medical then self-certification is not an option.

We glider pilots have a major privilege in self-certification. It is not
too much of a reach to say that if the privilege is abused, we may lose it."

Bill Daniels

You will have a hard time convincing the FAA or NTSB judge you did not
violate the rules flying with one the specifically prohibited conditions
(bi-polar disease), medicated or not. Pretty simple to figure out.

PK

"ADP" wrote in message
...

If you are suggesting that a glider pilot, in order to fly, must "self
certify" that he or she meets
the requirements of a class III physical, it may be the dumbest thing that
I've ever heard.
Even dumber than doing spin training at 800 ft AGL. (Which now seems to
have been rescinded, thank goodness.)
Note that I am not saying that you are dumb, merely that you are saying
dumb
things.

The guiding regulation is 14 CFR 61.53(b) and yes, 91.17 applies.

Your AME is incorrect; you do not have to "self certify" anything, you
merely must abide by 61.53(b).
If you were required to meet the medical rules of a Class III physical,
the
FARs would say so.

That means that, if you have a cold and can't clear your ears, you
shouldn't
fly. If you have cut your hand
and are unable to handle the controls, you shouldn't fly. If you have
multiple personality disorder and your personality of the day is suicidal,
you shouldn't fly.

Note how 61.53(b) differs substantially from 61.53(a). It differs for a
reason you, the pilot, make the determination that you are fit to fly, not
your AME, not the FAA and, thankfully, not those of you who choose to
rewrite the regulations to conform to whatever predjudice you have at the
moment.

The CARs, FARs and now CFRs were conceived of as being permissive, that
is,
if it is not expressly forbidden, it is presumed to be OK to do. If you
have a rating and/or pilot license of any kind, it is presumed that you
intend not to kill yourself or others.

So be careful out there, don't go rewriting the regulations and don't give
the FAA any reason to reexamine the regulations as they stand.

Allan




"I have asked this question of senior AME's and the answer is that there
is
no difference in medical standards, just in the means of certifying those
standards are met. A glider pilot may "self-certify" but a power pilot
needs an AME to do the certification. If a pilot knows or has reason to
know that a condition exists that would prevent the issuance of a 3rd
class
medical then self-certification is not an option.

We glider pilots have a major privilege in self-certification. It is not
too much of a reach to say that if the privilege is abused, we may lose
it."

Bill Daniels