Bipolar/Schizoaffective Disorder and Soaring

"DL152279546231" wrote in message
...
Still it seems a group such as the SSA would have had to have run into the
question so often from power pilots having been denied medicals FAA would
have
had to give an answer.

Started a new thread on the topic by the way to broaden the question to
any
drug/condition

I have asked this question of senior AME's and the answer is that there is
no difference in medical standards, just in the means of certifying those
standards are met. A glider pilot may "self-certify" but a power pilot
needs an AME to do the certification. If a pilot knows or has reason to
know that a condition exists that would prevent the issuance of a 3rd class
medical then self-certification is not an option.

We glider pilots have a major privilege in self-certification. It is not
too much of a reach to say that if the privilege is abused, we may lose it.

Bill Daniels

If you are suggesting that a glider pilot, in order to fly, must "self
certify" that he or she meets
the requirements of a class III physical, it may be the dumbest thing that
I've ever heard.
Even dumber than doing spin training at 800 ft AGL. (Which now seems to
have been rescinded, thank goodness.)
Note that I am not saying that you are dumb, merely that you are saying dumb
things.

The guiding regulation is 14 CFR 61.53(b) and yes, 91.17 applies.

Your AME is incorrect; you do not have to "self certify" anything, you
merely must abide by 61.53(b).
If you were required to meet the medical rules of a Class III physical, the
FARs would say so.

That means that, if you have a cold and can't clear your ears, you shouldn't
fly. If you have cut your hand
and are unable to handle the controls, you shouldn't fly. If you have
multiple personality disorder and your personality of the day is suicidal,
you shouldn't fly.

Note how 61.53(b) differs substantially from 61.53(a). It differs for a
reason you, the pilot, make the determination that you are fit to fly, not
your AME, not the FAA and, thankfully, not those of you who choose to
rewrite the regulations to conform to whatever predjudice you have at the
moment.

The CARs, FARs and now CFRs were conceived of as being permissive, that is,
if it is not expressly forbidden, it is presumed to be OK to do. If you
have a rating and/or pilot license of any kind, it is presumed that you
intend not to kill yourself or others.

So be careful out there, don't go rewriting the regulations and don't give
the FAA any reason to reexamine the regulations as they stand.

Allan




"I have asked this question of senior AME's and the answer is that there is
no difference in medical standards, just in the means of certifying those
standards are met. A glider pilot may "self-certify" but a power pilot
needs an AME to do the certification. If a pilot knows or has reason to
know that a condition exists that would prevent the issuance of a 3rd class
medical then self-certification is not an option.

We glider pilots have a major privilege in self-certification. It is not
too much of a reach to say that if the privilege is abused, we may lose it."

Bill Daniels

You will have a hard time convincing the FAA or NTSB judge you did not
violate the rules flying with one the specifically prohibited conditions
(bi-polar disease), medicated or not. Pretty simple to figure out.

PK

"ADP" wrote in message
...

If you are suggesting that a glider pilot, in order to fly, must "self
certify" that he or she meets
the requirements of a class III physical, it may be the dumbest thing that
I've ever heard.
Even dumber than doing spin training at 800 ft AGL. (Which now seems to
have been rescinded, thank goodness.)
Note that I am not saying that you are dumb, merely that you are saying
dumb
things.

The guiding regulation is 14 CFR 61.53(b) and yes, 91.17 applies.

Your AME is incorrect; you do not have to "self certify" anything, you
merely must abide by 61.53(b).
If you were required to meet the medical rules of a Class III physical,
the
FARs would say so.

That means that, if you have a cold and can't clear your ears, you
shouldn't
fly. If you have cut your hand
and are unable to handle the controls, you shouldn't fly. If you have
multiple personality disorder and your personality of the day is suicidal,
you shouldn't fly.

Note how 61.53(b) differs substantially from 61.53(a). It differs for a
reason you, the pilot, make the determination that you are fit to fly, not
your AME, not the FAA and, thankfully, not those of you who choose to
rewrite the regulations to conform to whatever predjudice you have at the
moment.

The CARs, FARs and now CFRs were conceived of as being permissive, that
is,
if it is not expressly forbidden, it is presumed to be OK to do. If you
have a rating and/or pilot license of any kind, it is presumed that you
intend not to kill yourself or others.

So be careful out there, don't go rewriting the regulations and don't give
the FAA any reason to reexamine the regulations as they stand.

Allan




"I have asked this question of senior AME's and the answer is that there
is
no difference in medical standards, just in the means of certifying those
standards are met. A glider pilot may "self-certify" but a power pilot
needs an AME to do the certification. If a pilot knows or has reason to
know that a condition exists that would prevent the issuance of a 3rd
class
medical then self-certification is not an option.

We glider pilots have a major privilege in self-certification. It is not
too much of a reach to say that if the privilege is abused, we may lose
it."

Bill Daniels

Show me anything in Part 67 (Medical Standards and Certification) that
applies to glider pilots.

Allan

MEDICATION INFORMATION: This page was last updated April 11, 2004
The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration does not publish a list of
"approved" medications. We have provided an updated list of medications the
FAA commonly authorizes for use during flight, plus restrictions on
medication use and a list of the medications the FAA does not normally
approve airmen to use. For detailed descriptions of each of the categories
described below and the associated medical conditions they treat, please see
the VFS Medical Information Center. For information from the FDA and other
sources on medications, adverse effects, pending approvals and other
testing, see the VFS Medical Links Page under Pharmacology. Also see BOOKS
at the end of this page.

Remember--the primary issue with the FAA is whether the medical condition
for which you are being treated is compatible with safe flight.
The question of treating the condition with medication is of secondary
concern.
"Paul Lynch" wrote in message
news:BjMyc.744$Jk5.100@lakeread02...
You will have a hard time convincing the FAA or NTSB judge you did not
violate the rules flying with one the specifically prohibited conditions
(bi-polar disease), medicated or not. Pretty simple to figure out.

PK

It is simpler than that. If the FAA defines some 15 or 16 disqualifying
conditions that they do not waive for pilots requiring a medical than how
can you argue you have the incredible wisdom and insight that you are safe
to fly if you have one of those conditions?? By your logic anyone can
self-certify no matter what their condition simply because they believe they
are safe to fly.

The sport pilot rule will no doubt end up clarifying this issue in the
future when someone has a mishap and has self-certified themselves safe to
fly. Perhaps we should get off all our soapboxes and let time and some
unfortunate individual(s) resolve the problem...

PK


"ADP" wrote in message
...
Show me anything in Part 67 (Medical Standards and Certification) that
applies to glider pilots.

Allan

MEDICATION INFORMATION: This page was last updated April 11, 2004
The U.S. Federal Aviation Administration does not publish a list of
"approved" medications. We have provided an updated list of medications
the
FAA commonly authorizes for use during flight, plus restrictions on
medication use and a list of the medications the FAA does not normally
approve airmen to use. For detailed descriptions of each of the
categories
described below and the associated medical conditions they treat, please
see
the VFS Medical Information Center. For information from the FDA and
other
sources on medications, adverse effects, pending approvals and other
testing, see the VFS Medical Links Page under Pharmacology. Also see
BOOKS
at the end of this page.

Remember--the primary issue with the FAA is whether the medical condition
for which you are being treated is compatible with safe flight.
The question of treating the condition with medication is of secondary
concern.
"Paul Lynch" wrote in message
news:BjMyc.744$Jk5.100@lakeread02...
You will have a hard time convincing the FAA or NTSB judge you did not
violate the rules flying with one the specifically prohibited conditions
(bi-polar disease), medicated or not. Pretty simple to figure out.

PK

Because you are not required to have a medical to fly gliders.
If the shoe does not fit you can not convict.

Allan


"Paul Lynch" wrote in message
news:7M7zc.900$Jk5.689@lakeread02...
It is simpler than that. If the FAA defines some 15 or 16 disqualifying
conditions that they do not waive for pilots requiring a medical than how
can you argue you have the incredible wisdom and insight that you are safe
to fly if you have one of those conditions?? By your logic anyone can
self-certify no matter what their condition simply because they believe
they
are safe to fly.

OK, let me see if I can clear the air on this.

Just because there is no requirement for glider pilots to have a Medical
Certificate doesn't mean there are no medical requirements for glider pilots
(there are, they are in 61.53).

61.23 says that glider pilots don't need a Medical Certificate. The
Certificate, in FAA terms, is an examination performed to a certain
standard, recorded on FAA Form 8500-8, and reviewed by AMCD in accordance
with standards. We don't need one of those.

61.53 says (as has been debated here and elsewhere for a long time) that we
glider pilots should restrict ourselves from flying when we "know or have
reason to know" that we can't fly safely. This is pretty vague: what does
"reason to know" mean? How to define "safe" in this context? Thus the
debate. If it were clear and unambiguous there would be no debate.

By the way, I think 61.53b applies to ultralight guys now, and sport pilot
guys, if that ever gets approved. The heading is something like: "For
operations which do not require a medical certificate." That's where U/L and
sport pilots will fall: no FAA medical certificate required, thus it applies
to them.

Bottom line. YES: there are medical requirements for us. NO: no medical
certificate needed for glider operations.

Bullwinkle

On 6/13/04 9:39 PM, in article , "ADP"
wrote:

Because you are not required to have a medical to fly gliders.
If the shoe does not fit you can not convict.

Allan


"Paul Lynch" wrote in message
news:7M7zc.900$Jk5.689@lakeread02...
It is simpler than that. If the FAA defines some 15 or 16 disqualifying
conditions that they do not waive for pilots requiring a medical than how
can you argue you have the incredible wisdom and insight that you are safe
to fly if you have one of those conditions?? By your logic anyone can
self-certify no matter what their condition simply because they believe
they
are safe to fly.