Performance World Class design proposal

Andreas Maurer wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:29:58 +0300, "iPilot"
wrote:


Just my stupid ideé fixe, but I hope that someone finds it interesting.


You just gave a perfect description of LS-4, LS8, DG-300,
Discus,......

In good ole Europe we call this "Club Class" and it's extremely
successful. Guess why...

I suspect there is little overall for support for the concept of a true
"one design" class, for several reasons:

* the current Standard, 15M, and 18M classes are nearly one design
classes anyway, because the performance difference from
manufacturer-to-manufacturer and year-to-year is very small

* the Club Class makes so many different used gliders competitive, the
potential cost advantage of a one-design class is eliminated

* the top pilots have little trouble getting the glider they want, most
of the rest of us are losing contests because of our ability, not our
glider, so there is little value to the majority of contest pilots to
have a one design class.

* the major interest in the one-design class seems to be from people
that hope it would result in a new 40+ L/D glider that doesn't cost any
more than a 20 year old used glider

I can't see the last item ever being more than a dream.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Eric Greenwell wrote in message ...
Andreas Maurer wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:29:58 +0300, "iPilot"
wrote:


Just my stupid ideé fixe, but I hope that someone finds it interesting.


You just gave a perfect description of LS-4, LS8, DG-300,
Discus,......

In good ole Europe we call this "Club Class" and it's extremely
successful. Guess why...

I suspect there is little overall for support for the concept of a true
"one design" class, for several reasons:

* the current Standard, 15M, and 18M classes are nearly one design
classes anyway, because the performance difference from
manufacturer-to-manufacturer and year-to-year is very small

* the Club Class makes so many different used gliders competitive, the
potential cost advantage of a one-design class is eliminated

* the top pilots have little trouble getting the glider they want, most
of the rest of us are losing contests because of our ability, not our
glider, so there is little value to the majority of contest pilots to
have a one design class.

* the major interest in the one-design class seems to be from people
that hope it would result in a new 40+ L/D glider that doesn't cost any
more than a 20 year old used glider

I can't see the last item ever being more than a dream.

Eric,
You just nailed the issue right on the head....

Yeah, and there seems to be a bunch of pretty nice gliders in the 40+- l/d
range for sale in the 18K-20K ($US) range. They usually come with decent
trailers and usable instruments. Second generation 70's open class ships are
selling in the low 20's these days and have very long legs (l/d @ 45-50).
A recent article in Technical Soaring would indicate a usable airframe life
somewhere in excess of 200,000 hours, so you probabluy wouldn't have to
worry too much about using one up.

Cheers!
"Jacek Kobiesa" wrote in message
om...
Eric Greenwell wrote in message
...
Andreas Maurer wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:29:58 +0300, "iPilot"
wrote:


Just my stupid ideé fixe, but I hope that someone finds it
interesting.


You just gave a perfect description of LS-4, LS8, DG-300,
Discus,......

In good ole Europe we call this "Club Class" and it's extremely
successful. Guess why...

I suspect there is little overall for support for the concept of a true
"one design" class, for several reasons:

* the current Standard, 15M, and 18M classes are nearly one design
classes anyway, because the performance difference from
manufacturer-to-manufacturer and year-to-year is very small

* the Club Class makes so many different used gliders competitive, the
potential cost advantage of a one-design class is eliminated

* the top pilots have little trouble getting the glider they want, most
of the rest of us are losing contests because of our ability, not our
glider, so there is little value to the majority of contest pilots to
have a one design class.

* the major interest in the one-design class seems to be from people
that hope it would result in a new 40+ L/D glider that doesn't cost any
more than a 20 year old used glider

I can't see the last item ever being more than a dream.

Eric,
You just nailed the issue right on the head....

"Pete Reinhart" wrote in message .. .
Yeah, and there seems to be a bunch of pretty nice gliders in the 40+- l/d
range for sale in the 18K-20K ($US) range. They usually come with decent
trailers and usable instruments. Second generation 70's open class ships are
selling in the low 20's these days and have very long legs (l/d @ 45-50).
A recent article in Technical Soaring would indicate a usable airframe life
somewhere in excess of 200,000 hours, so you probabluy wouldn't have to
worry too much about using one up.

Cheers!
"Jacek Kobiesa" wrote in message
om...
Eric Greenwell wrote in message
...
Andreas Maurer wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:29:58 +0300, "iPilot"
wrote:


Just my stupid ideé fixe, but I hope that someone finds it
interesting.


You just gave a perfect description of LS-4, LS8, DG-300,
Discus,......

In good ole Europe we call this "Club Class" and it's extremely
successful. Guess why...

I suspect there is little overall for support for the concept of a true
"one design" class, for several reasons:

* the current Standard, 15M, and 18M classes are nearly one design
classes anyway, because the performance difference from
manufacturer-to-manufacturer and year-to-year is very small

* the Club Class makes so many different used gliders competitive, the
potential cost advantage of a one-design class is eliminated

* the top pilots have little trouble getting the glider they want, most
of the rest of us are losing contests because of our ability, not our
glider, so there is little value to the majority of contest pilots to
have a one design class.

* the major interest in the one-design class seems to be from people
that hope it would result in a new 40+ L/D glider that doesn't cost any
more than a 20 year old used glider

I can't see the last item ever being more than a dream.

Eric,
You just nailed the issue right on the head....

Yeah, and there seems to be a bunch of pretty nice gliders in the 40+- l/d
range for sale in the 18K-20K ($US) range. They usually come with decent
trailers and usable instruments. Second generation 70's open class ships are
selling in the low 20's these days and have very long legs (l/d @ 45-50).
A recent article in Technical Soaring would indicate a usable airframe life
somewhere in excess of 200,000 hours, so you probabluy wouldn't have to
worry too much about using one up.

Cheers!

Where did you get this data from?

Well,
You could start at Tim Mara'S site.
If you kepp looking for a while yoou will get a fel for the market. The good
deals only show up for a few days. The ones poorly priced stay ther for
months...and months....and months.
cheers!
"Jacek Kobiesa" wrote in message
om...
"Pete Reinhart" wrote in message
.. .
Yeah, and there seems to be a bunch of pretty nice gliders in the 40+-
l/d
range for sale in the 18K-20K ($US) range. They usually come with decent
trailers and usable instruments. Second generation 70's open class ships
are
selling in the low 20's these days and have very long legs (l/d @
45-50).
A recent article in Technical Soaring would indicate a usable airframe
life
somewhere in excess of 200,000 hours, so you probabluy wouldn't have to
worry too much about using one up.

Cheers!
"Jacek Kobiesa" wrote in message
om...
Eric Greenwell wrote in message
...
Andreas Maurer wrote:

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:29:58 +0300, "iPilot"

wrote:


Just my stupid ideé fixe, but I hope that someone finds it
interesting.


You just gave a perfect description of LS-4, LS8, DG-300,
Discus,......

In good ole Europe we call this "Club Class" and it's extremely
successful. Guess why...

I suspect there is little overall for support for the concept of a
true
"one design" class, for several reasons:

* the current Standard, 15M, and 18M classes are nearly one design
classes anyway, because the performance difference from
manufacturer-to-manufacturer and year-to-year is very small

* the Club Class makes so many different used gliders competitive,
the
potential cost advantage of a one-design class is eliminated

* the top pilots have little trouble getting the glider they want,
most
of the rest of us are losing contests because of our ability, not
our
glider, so there is little value to the majority of contest pilots
to
have a one design class.

* the major interest in the one-design class seems to be from people
that hope it would result in a new 40+ L/D glider that doesn't cost
any
more than a 20 year old used glider

I can't see the last item ever being more than a dream.

Eric,
You just nailed the issue right on the head....

Yeah, and there seems to be a bunch of pretty nice gliders in the 40+- l/d
range for sale in the 18K-20K ($US) range. They usually come with decent
trailers and usable instruments. Second generation 70's open class ships
are
selling in the low 20's these days and have very long legs (l/d @ 45-50).
A recent article in Technical Soaring would indicate a usable airframe
life
somewhere in excess of 200,000 hours, so you probabluy wouldn't have to
worry too much about using one up.

Cheers!

Where did you get this data from?