70 kg 31:1 glider is here to stay?

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 22:35:18 UTC, wrote:

: One guy buys a PW5. Another guy buys a Libelle or Std Cirrus, flys
: circles around the PW5, and has $10K or so left over to spend on booze
: or hookers or whatever. Who has got more enjoyment for his money?

I dunno. Why not ask them?

Ian


--

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 18:03:12 UTC, "Tim Mara"
wrote:

: again.....part of the reasons that many people have been drawn to soaring,
: especially those who have joined the ranks from general aviation, is the
: slick beautiful lines of (most) sailplanes...

And part of the reasons that many people have been put off soaring is
the cost, complexity and infrastructure. It's a classic mistake in
marketing to ask your customers how things could be improved ... you
should be asking everyone else!

That said, of course, has the PW-5 yet sold 5% of the numbers
predicted?

Ian

--

Uzytkownik "Ian Johnston" napisal w
wiadomosci
...

On the other hand, traditional soaring is dying all over the world
while hang/paragliding are booming.

Ian

I have tried paragliding once, and I know: never again. Too scary experience
as for me. In a glider, I sit in a cockpit, and feel without any doubt much
safer.
If it comes to hanggliding, seems to be safer, but I have seen enough
accidents to think a lot until I'll give it a try, however recently I have
started to compare the costs of beginning to learn hang-gliding and staying
here as a glider pilot.

Regards,


--
Janusz Kesik
Poland
to reply put my name.surname[at]gazeta.pl
-------------------------------------
See Wroclaw (Breslau) in photography,
The XIX Century, the Festung Breslau, and photos taken today.
http://www.wroclaw.dolny.slask.pl

"Ian Johnston" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:41:19 UTC, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:

: Where I object to these low performance gliders is that they fly in the
face
: of a century of soaring progress. They seem to say, "since we can't
compete
: with the fast guys, lets change the rules".
:
: If I am to joust with the forces of nature over hostile terrain, I want
all
: the performance I can buy. Mother Nature just won't let you change her
: rules.

On the other hand, traditional soaring is dying all over the world
while hang/paragliding are booming.

Ian

Where I fly, hang gliding is dying. The survivors are taking up traditional
soaring. The HG people are finding traditional soaring is cheaper and much
easier on the knees.

Bill Daniels

Chris OCallaghan wrote:


Whining about what I don't have seems to me an exercise in futility.
Even worse, whining about other people who are honestly trying to keep
others from whining... well, it's a sad thing, indeed. If you are a
real pilot, as opposed to someone who just likes to tell his friends
he's a pilot, you'll fly what you can afford and love it. Or you'll
find a way to affort your dreams. All the better if someone is
inspired to find you a better price/performance ratio. Who cares what
it looks like?

I agree. My priorities, in order, are safety, comfort, handling, with
cost, performance, and rigging ease, being in the "trade-offs" category,
with appearance as the last one. I've bought 5 gliders in the 30 years
I've been flying, and never chose between gliders based on their appearance!

I love looking beautiful sailplanes, but I don't have fly one; after
all, it's either in the trailer, or I'm inside it looking out.

--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

"Ian Johnston" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 15:41:19 UTC, "Bill Daniels"
wrote:

: Where I object to these low performance gliders is that they fly in the
face
: of a century of soaring progress. They seem to say, "since we can't
compete
: with the fast guys, lets change the rules".
:
: If I am to joust with the forces of nature over hostile terrain, I want
all
: the performance I can buy. Mother Nature just won't let you change her
: rules.

On the other hand, traditional soaring is dying all over the world
while hang/paragliding are booming.

Ian

Not according to the HG list I follow. HG/PG are merging in the US, not
without dissension and controversy.

Frank

Ian Johnston wrote:

And part of the reasons that many people have been put off soaring is
the cost, complexity and infrastructure.

Yeah, it's hard to overcome the character defects in your customers.

Chris O'Callaghan has it right:

"...there was a day when the 2-33 sufficiently
inspired me. And not long after when the 1-26
was as pretty and nimble as you could want a
glider to be. There were glass gliders on the
field, but they didn't diminish my interest in
those gliders I had access to.

"Let's be clear about something... real pilots
need to fly...."

"...If you are a real pilot, as opposed to someone
who just likes to tell his friends he's a pilot,
you'll fly what you can afford and love it. Or
you'll find a way to afford your dreams."

The cost of my 1-26 is minimal. It flies wonderfully. What more could
I ask? Being retired after a full and diverse aviation career, I can
enjoy flight for its own sake more perfectly now than ever.

My club is very much a mutually supportive environment for my soaring
activities, and there is nothing less complex in aviation that I know
of than flying sailplanes.

If "cost, complexity and infrastructure" are major impediments to
soaring for some people I cannot sympathize with them at all.


Jack

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 18:20:36 UTC, Jack wrote:

: My club is very much a mutually supportive environment for my soaring
: activities, and there is nothing less complex in aviation that I know
: of than flying sailplanes.

Well, if I want to fly a sailplane in the UK, I have to

a) join a club

b) travel to the club one day on most flyable weekends for a year
until solo, then

c) arrive at the club by 9am or so for a reasonable place on the
flying list

d) depend on a tug pilot/winch driver, and ground crew to get me
airborne

and that's without the additional complications of retrieve crew if I
fly cross country. On the other hand, if I want to fly a paraglider in
the UK I have to

a) take a training course over a few weekends

b) climb up a convenient hll

c) jump off.

OK's a different experience, but it's still flying and if that's the
driving urge, not travelling huge numbers of miles or pole squattng in
wave, but just flying for the love of being off the ground then I am
quite sure that foot launched gliders offer significant reductions in
cost and time required.

: If "cost, complexity and infrastructure" are major impediments to
: soaring for some people I cannot sympathize with them at all.

And that, with all due respect, is the sort of attitude that explains
why gliding is in such trouble. I, on the contrary, have enormous
sympathy for those whose burning desire to fly is thwarted by The
System, and I'm all in favour of making things cheaper and simpler
whenever possible.

Ian

"Ian Johnston" writes:

On the other hand, traditional soaring is dying all over the world
while hang/paragliding are booming.

Ian


I keep reading this in discussions of soaring dying and it is not true. All
soaring activities are declining. Hang gliding peaked in the '80s and
paragliding peaked in the '90s.

Steve

Ian Johnston wrote:

And that, with all due respect, is the sort of attitude that explains
why gliding is in such trouble. I, on the contrary, have enormous
sympathy for those whose burning desire to fly is thwarted by The
System, and I'm all in favour of making things cheaper and simpler
whenever possible.

Cheaper and simpler is good.

But Hang Gliding is not Para Gliding is not Soaring.

Going first class always costs a little more. Your argument that the
best experience should be available for a price and a degree of effort
commensurate with the most basic experience flies in the face of all
human history, Ian.

Those who whine or "whinge" (UK), about the cost of fast glass, and
yet find a 1-26 or a PW-5 beneath them, those who complain that the
air field is too far away but can't be bothered to move their tent,
and those who can't abide a bit of study and compliance sound a
similar note to yours. Fortunately, the rest of us are too busy flying
to be very concerned about the background noise.


Jack