Tires again (but this time on the tow vehicle)

I tow a large trailer which carries both my Salto sailplane
and my Skybolt biplane behind a Dodge Ram 2500. When
I changed tires a couple of years ago, they inadvertently
installed 8 ply (load range D) instead of 10 ply (load
range E). The towing characteristics went from excellent
to scary. The tire shop fixed the mistake, and all
is well again.

If you are towing a sailplane trailer at 75 MPH behind
a VW Passat, let me know where you're going, so I can
be sure to stay far away. IMHO, not nearly enough
tow vehicle mass, regardless of tires.

At 05:30 03 February 2005, Papa3 wrote:
I recently replaced the Original Equipment Michelin
MXV4 H-rated tires on my
VW Passat 4 motion wagon (Variant for those of you
in Europe) with Dunlop SP
40 A/S all weather radials. Other than lacking a speed
rating, they are the
same dimensions as the originals. Although the
new tires are okay in
regular driving, I've noticed that the towing performance
is much worse.
The car and trailer combination (LS8 in a new Anschau
Komet Euro Trailer)
used to be rock solid up to 75mph; any mild trailer
wag would damp out
immediately. Now, trailer wag can set up at around
65mph, and it seems
less likely to damp out.

I'm assuming that one aspect of speed rated tires must
be a stiffer sidewall
to handle cornering loads. I'm guessing that this
may be a part of the
problem. Anyone else experience similar?

Erik Mann (P3)

Bob C wrote:

If you are towing a sailplane trailer at 75 MPH behind
a VW Passat, let me know where you're going, so I can
be sure to stay far away. IMHO, not nearly enough
tow vehicle mass, regardless of tires.

For what it is worth, the website for VW of Australia indicates that the
towing capacity for the VW Passat is 1300 km (2860 pounds) -- almost
twice the weight of a glider trailer (with glider). Of course, VW
doubtless does not use the same number in the US.

IMHO, not nearly enough
tow vehicle mass, regardless of tires

Following this logic, I'd be better off using an M-1 Abrahms... :-))

The Passat is a fantastic tow vehicle. With a curb weight of around
3800 lbs, all-wheel drive, stiff suspension, low CG, and a relatively
short coupling between hitch and rear axle, it's a great compromise
between tow vehicle and every day transportation. And with highway
mileage of about 25 (versus what - 16 for the Dodge?), I can still
afford to take a tow when I get to the airport! (and no, I don't really
tow at 75mph, but it is [was] no problem if I needed to for short
bursts with the old setup).

P3

"Papa3" wrote in message
oups.com...
The Passat is a fantastic tow vehicle. With a curb weight of around
3800 lbs, all-wheel drive, stiff suspension, low CG, and a relatively
short coupling between hitch and rear axle, it's a great compromise
between tow vehicle and every day transportation. And with highway
mileage of about 25 (versus what - 16 for the Dodge?), I can still
afford to take a tow when I get to the airport! (and no, I don't really
tow at 75mph, but it is [was] no problem if I needed to for short
bursts with the old setup).

P3


A few years ago I too thought that the Passat wagon looked like a good
choice to tow a glider trailer. When I went to look into buying one I found
out that "Volkswagon recommends that you don't use this vehicle for towing".
I first thought that the dealer was full of it, so I called Volkswagon
myself and, after being handed off a few times, got the definitive answer
that "we (VW) do not recommend that the Passat (or Jetta) be used for towing
and we do not publish any recomended trailer weight limit." Now, I
certainly won't argue with someone who says that he has had good results
using a Passat to tow, but I personally tend to believe the manufacture when
they say that you should not use their automobile for towing.
(This is in the US; perhaps in Europe VW gives a different story.)

Does anyone have experience towing with a Subaru Outback (2005 model
especially)? It bests the Passat wagon in most of the specs that I care
about, including price, and it is rated to tow 2700 lbs (1225 kg).

Michael McNulty wrote:

they say that you should not use their automobile for towing.
(This is in the US; perhaps in Europe VW gives a different story.)

Looking at the outcome of some liability lawsuits in the US, I'm
surprized that there are still manufactorers which recommend their
product for *anything*.

Stefan

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Michael McNulty wrote:

they say that you should not use their automobile for towing.
(This is in the US; perhaps in Europe VW gives a different story.)

Looking at the outcome of some liability lawsuits in the US, I'm surprized
that there are still manufactorers which recommend their product for
*anything*.

Stefan

Do you actually know anything about the legal system in the US, driving in
the US, or anything else in the US, or, are you just a inclined to
reflexively bash any mention of anything America?

Michael McNulty wrote:

Do you actually know anything about the legal system in the US, driving in
the US, or anything else in the US, or, are you just a inclined to
reflexively bash any mention of anything America?

If your patriotic reflex had allowed you to recognize the irony, you
would have understood that my message simply was: "There may be other
reasons than technical ones."

Stefan

Well, in Europe almost all vehicules are rated for maximum tow weight -
depending on horse power and torque. If the same car isn't rated for towing
in the US (and the Passat tows fairly well) it is obvious that the reason
behind this is not technical.

I think the main reason for the difference in European and US perception is
that in Europe, suspensions are much stiffer and steering is more direct. We
need that here because our roads are much less smooth, rather windy- and
because the style of driving is much different (especially if you go to
southern France or Italy).

But the result is simple for us: In the last 25 years, I never ever heared a
European sailplane pilot discussing about tires. You check the max tow
weight of the car you fancy, you buy it with a hook and you go - with a
Cobra or a Komet trailer, there won't be any problem. My Calif trailer is a
different story (1200kg, one axle, suspicious stability), but when I blew a
tire of that trailer at 100kph on a narrow road, the car kept going straight
ahead - I eventually stopped because the steering wheel started to rattle
and a big plume of smoke was coming off the reminder of the wheel (since
then I stopped listening to hard rock on full power...). The car was a Saab
with a 2 litres engine, 300kg heavier than the trailer.

Having driven a lot in the US in various rental cars, I wouldn't take the
same approach...

--
Bert Willing

ASW20 "TW"


"Michael McNulty" a écrit dans le message de news:
T85Nd.31446$mt.26531@fed1read03...

"Stefan" wrote in message
...
Michael McNulty wrote:

they say that you should not use their automobile for towing.
(This is in the US; perhaps in Europe VW gives a different story.)

Looking at the outcome of some liability lawsuits in the US, I'm
surprized that there are still manufactorers which recommend their
product for *anything*.

Stefan

Do you actually know anything about the legal system in the US, driving in
the US, or anything else in the US, or, are you just a inclined to
reflexively bash any mention of anything America?

Michael,
You will get the same response at the mercedes dealer. twenty years ago they
would sell a german produced tow hitch kit for any model and now they don't
want to talk about it.
If pressed they will refer you to a local hitch fabricator and only say that
they have other customers who have used them.
If you know about it to ask, there is a small shop handbook which covers all
of the production models worldwide and gives various specifications for
repair, alignment, and interchange parts, etc. You can find that widely
different wheels, springs, tires, shocks etc. are used in other countries
depending on installed equipment and intended use. It seems that the cars
shipped to OZ are the most ruggedized. The Aussie trailering springs I
ordered were in stock in a warehouse one day away and the dealer was happy
to sell the parts for an independent shop to install. You may find a similar
situation with the VW if you can find a guru.
Yes, the tort lawyers have screwed up things again IMNSHO.
Of course they may end up being the only ones around with enough money to
buy one of the new gliders coming out of europe.
Cheers!


"Michael McNulty" wrote in message
news:S6XMd.27890$mt.18900@fed1read03...

"Papa3" wrote in message
oups.com...
The Passat is a fantastic tow vehicle. With a curb weight of around
3800 lbs, all-wheel drive, stiff suspension, low CG, and a relatively
short coupling between hitch and rear axle, it's a great compromise
between tow vehicle and every day transportation. And with highway
mileage of about 25 (versus what - 16 for the Dodge?), I can still
afford to take a tow when I get to the airport! (and no, I don't really
tow at 75mph, but it is [was] no problem if I needed to for short
bursts with the old setup).

P3


A few years ago I too thought that the Passat wagon looked like a good
choice to tow a glider trailer. When I went to look into buying one I
found
out that "Volkswagon recommends that you don't use this vehicle for
towing".
I first thought that the dealer was full of it, so I called Volkswagon
myself and, after being handed off a few times, got the definitive answer
that "we (VW) do not recommend that the Passat (or Jetta) be used for
towing
and we do not publish any recomended trailer weight limit." Now, I
certainly won't argue with someone who says that he has had good results
using a Passat to tow, but I personally tend to believe the manufacture
when
they say that you should not use their automobile for towing.
(This is in the US; perhaps in Europe VW gives a different story.)

Does anyone have experience towing with a Subaru Outback (2005 model
especially)? It bests the Passat wagon in most of the specs that I care
about, including price, and it is rated to tow 2700 lbs (1225 kg).

"Pete Reinhart" wrote in message
...
Michael,
You will get the same response at the mercedes dealer. twenty years ago
they
would sell a german produced tow hitch kit for any model and now they
don't
want to talk about it.

snip

From what I've read, while Mercedes does give a tow rating for many of their
cars sold in German, they limit the speed while towing to either 55 mph or
62 mph (100 km/h). This is really not suitable for highway use in the
Western United States.

I have plenty of choices of when I buy a car. I don't need to buy one that
the manufacturer says is not suitable for my intended use.