Clearance with an Odd Intersection

"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in message
...
"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...
Had you queried the controller about the location of the intersection, he
would be able to give you coordinates.

As in LAT/LONG coordinates or radial fixes? Hadn't thought of that. I'll
try
next time.


The Garmin should also be able to give you that info, although knowing
lat/long won't help you find it on any chart, assuming that it is not on the
enroute as you said.

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...

Had you queried the controller about the location of the intersection, he
would be able to give you coordinates.


Possibly, but not necessarily.

Marco,
If you filed /G then the controller will not even ask. They know it is
in the Nav Database.
Michelle

Marco Leon wrote:

Has anyone received a route clearance that included an intersection that was
only on an approach chart and not in an Enroute Chart?
Flew IFR from FRG to GON with the following clearance: Farmingdale Three,
radar vectors BDR, direct MAD, MAD 126 radial to MONDI, direct.
For the life of me I couldn't find MONDI on the enroute. However, it was in
my (up-to-date) Garmin 430 database and it was pretty much on the way
(albeit a bit of a dogleg) so I didn't make it an issue. Turns out MONDI is
only on the KGON ILS RWY 5 and it's not even an IAF. The GPS RWY 33 was the
active approach which made it even more difficult to figure out.

Is this commom anywhere else? Should they have told me it was only on an
IAP chart? Are all the fixes on any of a given airport's approach charts
fair-game to include in an enroute clearance?

Regards,
Marco Leon

Now THAT makes sense. Is that a common thing with the air carriers?

Thanks,

Marco


"Michelle P" wrote in message
link.net...
Marco,
If you filed /G then the controller will not even ask. They know it is
in the Nav Database.
Michelle

Marco Leon wrote:

Has anyone received a route clearance that included an intersection that
was
only on an approach chart and not in an Enroute Chart?
Flew IFR from FRG to GON with the following clearance: Farmingdale Three,
radar vectors BDR, direct MAD, MAD 126 radial to MONDI, direct.
For the life of me I couldn't find MONDI on the enroute. However, it was
in
my (up-to-date) Garmin 430 database and it was pretty much on the way
(albeit a bit of a dogleg) so I didn't make it an issue. Turns out MONDI
is
only on the KGON ILS RWY 5 and it's not even an IAF. The GPS RWY 33 was
the
active approach which made it even more difficult to figure out.

Is this commom anywhere else? Should they have told me it was only on an
IAP chart? Are all the fixes on any of a given airport's approach charts
fair-game to include in an enroute clearance?

Regards,
Marco Leon

"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in :

Now THAT makes sense. Is that a common thing with the air carriers?

Air carriers almost always use canned flight plans that never vary, and
they seldom file /G.

I file /G every time as a Part 135 pilot, and seldom to the same place, so
every flight plan is different, and the routes can be really weird,
especially the ones going offshore. If you have a GPS, then all you need
to do is pull the intersections up on it. The GPS doesn't care where the
waypoint is charted, it just knows where it is, and will take you there.
Another place to look for intersections, especially at or near your
destination, is on the STARs.

--
Regards,

Stan

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." B. Franklin

Stan,
They may not file /G but all of our planes are equipped with GPS and use
it all the time. They are offered direct to a fix outside the rage of a
VOR and take it all the time.
Michelle (veteran of many jumpseat rides)

Stan Gosnell wrote:

"Marco Leon" mmleon(at)yahoo.com wrote in :



Now THAT makes sense. Is that a common thing with the air carriers?



Air carriers almost always use canned flight plans that never vary, and
they seldom file /G.

I file /G every time as a Part 135 pilot, and seldom to the same place, so
every flight plan is different, and the routes can be really weird,
especially the ones going offshore. If you have a GPS, then all you need
to do is pull the intersections up on it. The GPS doesn't care where the
waypoint is charted, it just knows where it is, and will take you there.
Another place to look for intersections, especially at or near your
destination, is on the STARs.

Air carriers almost always use canned flight plans that never vary,

Most air carrier flight plans are not canned in the sense that the same
flight plan is prefiled and does not ever change. Air carrier flight
plans are typically filed the same day as the flight and do vary
according to weather or flow restrictions.


and they seldom file /G.

If the aircraft is capable of /G then that is what they would file.
Nowadays with the jets pretty much all you see is /Q and /W.

Not at all unusual. You have to keep both the approach plate and low
altitude chart (or area chart) close at hand for reference.

Bob Gardner

"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...
Has anyone received a route clearance that included an intersection that
was only on an approach chart and not in an Enroute Chart?
Flew IFR from FRG to GON with the following clearance: Farmingdale Three,
radar vectors BDR, direct MAD, MAD 126 radial to MONDI, direct.
For the life of me I couldn't find MONDI on the enroute. However, it was
in my (up-to-date) Garmin 430 database and it was pretty much on the way
(albeit a bit of a dogleg) so I didn't make it an issue. Turns out MONDI
is only on the KGON ILS RWY 5 and it's not even an IAF. The GPS RWY 33 was
the active approach which made it even more difficult to figure out.

Is this commom anywhere else? Should they have told me it was only on an
IAP chart? Are all the fixes on any of a given airport's approach charts
fair-game to include in an enroute clearance?

Regards,
Marco Leon

At an airport with multiple approaches, it still seems cumbersome spread out
all the approach plates to understand an enroute clearance. One or two would
be fine but airports like KFRG with 5 or 6 doesn't strike me as logical
since the winds aren't (and can't be) taken into account.

Well, now I know and I appreciate the new knowledge.

Thanks Bob,

Marco


"Bob Gardner" wrote in message
...
Not at all unusual. You have to keep both the approach plate and low
altitude chart (or area chart) close at hand for reference.

Bob Gardner

"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...
Has anyone received a route clearance that included an intersection that
was only on an approach chart and not in an Enroute Chart?
Flew IFR from FRG to GON with the following clearance: Farmingdale Three,
radar vectors BDR, direct MAD, MAD 126 radial to MONDI, direct.
For the life of me I couldn't find MONDI on the enroute. However, it was
in my (up-to-date) Garmin 430 database and it was pretty much on the way
(albeit a bit of a dogleg) so I didn't make it an issue. Turns out MONDI
is only on the KGON ILS RWY 5 and it's not even an IAF. The GPS RWY 33
was the active approach which made it even more difficult to figure out.

Is this commom anywhere else? Should they have told me it was only on an
IAP chart? Are all the fixes on any of a given airport's approach charts
fair-game to include in an enroute clearance?

Regards,
Marco Leon







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"Marco Leon" mleon(at)optonline.net wrote in message
...

Has anyone received a route clearance that included an intersection that
was only on an approach chart and not in an Enroute Chart?
Flew IFR from FRG to GON with the following clearance: Farmingdale Three,
radar vectors BDR, direct MAD, MAD 126 radial to MONDI, direct.
For the life of me I couldn't find MONDI on the enroute. However, it was
in my (up-to-date) Garmin 430 database and it was pretty much on the way
(albeit a bit of a dogleg) so I didn't make it an issue. Turns out MONDI
is only on the KGON ILS RWY 5 and it's not even an IAF. The GPS RWY 33 was
the active approach which made it even more difficult to figure out.

Is this commom anywhere else?


It's not unusual to use an approach fix at the destination airport.



Should they have told me it was only on an IAP chart?


Since you were landing there they probably assumed you were familiar with
the approaches.



Are all the fixes on any of a given airport's approach charts
fair-game to include in an enroute clearance?


If you're landing at that airport, yes.