I'M FROM THE FAA AND I'M HERE TO HELP YOU

Lakeview Bill wrote:
Could not a "ramp check" be construed as "interfering with a required
crew
member"?

I agree that it is possible the FAA person was out of line.

And, as I originally pointed out, we don't have enough information to
really
assess what happened.

But that also means that we don't have enough information to
determine that
the FAA was acting beyond their authority, as might be inferred from
the
subject line on the original post and by the various other comments
that
have been posted.

From the article : "An FAA spokesman told the Star that interference
with flight-crew operations violates federal aviation law and is
subject to a civil fine of up to $10,000. "

It's pretty simple. The FAA person is not part of the flight crew
and has no business interfering with a flight crew in flight. What
other information to you need to come to the conclusion that a flight
standards rep cannot interfere with a flight crew? The law does has no
exemption for people that happen to work for the FAA.

The degree of interference may be in question, but it seems pretty
clear to me that the FAA person was clearly overstepping her authority.
As far as the law is concerned, she was just another passenger on
that flight.

BTW - In addition to the FARs, there are federal criminal statutes that
cover interference with a flight crew.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

As an analogy, scale the incident down to where it involves an off-duty
policeman in plain clothes riding on a city bus when an altercation broke
out. If you were on the bus, wouldn't you want the cop to trump the bus
driver in handling the situation?

Probably not.

Jose
--
Get high on gasoline: fly an airplane.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

By your logic, a TSA flight marshal would be powerless to intervene.

And you are making the assumption that the flight attendant was acting
properly.

Suppose a flight gets asked for a glass of water just one time too many and
starts beating an elderly woman with a fire extinguisher.

Would it be acceptable to you if a TSA officer intervened?

Would it be acceptable to you if an FAA employee intervened?

Would it be acceptable to you if an ordinary citizen intervened?

Or would you find it acceptable for everyone to just stay in their seats and
allow the flight attendant to beat the old lady to death?

AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THIS WASN'T A SITUATION WHERE A FLIGHT ATTENDANT
WAS BEATING AN OLD LADY TO DEATH WITH A FIRE EXTINGUISHER? YOU DON'T!

As far as the law goes, why don't you define "interfere" for us, and then
I'll get 20 Federal judges to give you totally different definitions.

You may or may not know that in most jurisdictions, it is a violation to
interfere with a policeman making an arrest. But if the arrestee starts
fighting the cop and grabbing for a gun and you walk over and cold-cock the
bad guy with a beer bottle do you really think you are going to get
arrested?

Now, go back and read every word I have written on this subject, and you
will find that I did not in any way say that the action of the FAA person
was correct.

I simply pointed out circumstances under which it could have been correct.

You asked the question: "What other information to you need to come to the
conclusion that a flight standards rep cannot interfere with a flight crew?"

Well, to start with, a definition of "interfere".

You stated: "it seems pretty clear to me that the FAA person was clearly
overstepping her authority."

Given that she was not charged, and given the paucity of facts that were in
the article, if it "seems pretty clear to (you)", I can only believe that
your judgment is questionable.


"John Galban" wrote in message
oups.com...

Lakeview Bill wrote:
Could not a "ramp check" be construed as "interfering with a required
crew
member"?

I agree that it is possible the FAA person was out of line.

And, as I originally pointed out, we don't have enough information to
really
assess what happened.

But that also means that we don't have enough information to
determine that
the FAA was acting beyond their authority, as might be inferred from
the
subject line on the original post and by the various other comments
that
have been posted.

From the article : "An FAA spokesman told the Star that interference
with flight-crew operations violates federal aviation law and is
subject to a civil fine of up to $10,000. "

It's pretty simple. The FAA person is not part of the flight crew
and has no business interfering with a flight crew in flight. What
other information to you need to come to the conclusion that a flight
standards rep cannot interfere with a flight crew? The law does has no
exemption for people that happen to work for the FAA.

The degree of interference may be in question, but it seems pretty
clear to me that the FAA person was clearly overstepping her authority.
As far as the law is concerned, she was just another passenger on
that flight.

BTW - In addition to the FARs, there are federal criminal statutes that
cover interference with a flight crew.

John Galban=====N4BQ (PA28-180)

Lakeview Bill wrote:

"The official was questioned and released, and NO CHARGES WERE FILED IN THE
INCIDENT."

While the PIC has full control over the flight, in this instance, we have
seen no evidence that the PIC was involved in the action.

And absent specific instructions from the PIC, I think it is quite possible
that a flight standards manager could very well trump a flight attendant.

I don't see that being reasonable at all. An FAA manager has no
authority on a civilian operated airliner.


Just a guess, but I imagine that the situation escalated because of some
sort of interpersonal issues between the FAA official and the FA.

As an analogy, scale the incident down to where it involves an off-duty
policeman in plain clothes riding on a city bus when an altercation broke
out. If you were on the bus, wouldn't you want the cop to trump the bus
driver in handling the situation?

This isn't even close to an analogy. A police officer has law
enforcement authority, an FAA manager has no such authority.


Frankly, none of us can make any sort of judgment regarding the situation
based on the information we have seen here; we simply aren't given all of
the facts.

And I think that the whole purpose of the original post was to feed those
who hate the FAA.

I thought it was to show that even an FAA manager isn't above the law.

Matt

Lakeview Bill wrote:

By your logic, a TSA flight marshal would be powerless to intervene.

A law enforcement officer and a manager aren't even close to being the
same thing.


And you are making the assumption that the flight attendant was acting
properly.

That is a reasonable assumption lacking any evidence to the contrary.


Suppose a flight gets asked for a glass of water just one time too many and
starts beating an elderly woman with a fire extinguisher.

Would it be acceptable to you if a TSA officer intervened?

Would it be acceptable to you if an FAA employee intervened?

Would it be acceptable to you if an ordinary citizen intervened?

Or would you find it acceptable for everyone to just stay in their seats and
allow the flight attendant to beat the old lady to death?

AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT THIS WASN'T A SITUATION WHERE A FLIGHT ATTENDANT
WAS BEATING AN OLD LADY TO DEATH WITH A FIRE EXTINGUISHER? YOU DON'T!

Now you are being ridiculous. You really think that wouldn't have been
reported had that happened?

Matt

"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
om...
"The official was questioned and released, and NO CHARGES WERE FILED IN
THE
INCIDENT."

While the PIC has full control over the flight, in this instance, we have
seen no evidence that the PIC was involved in the action.

PIC doesn't have to be involved.

And absent specific instructions from the PIC, I think it is quite
possible
that a flight standards manager could very well trump a flight attendant.

I don't believe the FARs back up your thoughts.

Just a guess, but I imagine that the situation escalated because of some
sort of interpersonal issues between the FAA official and the FA.

As in the FAA goon sticking his/her nose in where it doesn't belong.

As an analogy, scale the incident down to where it involves an off-duty
policeman in plain clothes riding on a city bus when an altercation broke
out. If you were on the bus, wouldn't you want the cop to trump the bus
driver in handling the situation?

Probably not.

Frankly, none of us can make any sort of judgment regarding the situation
based on the information we have seen here; we simply aren't given all of
the facts.

And I think that the whole purpose of the original post was to feed those
who hate the FAA.

There is plenty of that food in the store to last decades.

"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message
om...
Could not a "ramp check" be construed as "interfering with a required crew
member"?

During a ramp check the FAA cannot interfer with the departude of the
aircraft.

"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message news:%li5e.16161

By your logic, a TSA flight marshal would be powerless to intervene.

Unless there was a danger to flight, (or persons) situation, that is
exzacary right. He is only there for Security (thus the "S" in TSA), not
behavior policing.
--
Jim in NC

"Morgans" wrote in message
...

"Lakeview Bill" wrote in message news:%li5e.16161

By your logic, a TSA flight marshal would be powerless to intervene.

Unless there was a danger to flight, (or persons) situation, that is
exzacary right. He is only there for Security (thus the "S" in TSA), not
behavior policing.
--
Jim in NC


Exactly....the sky marshals would not give up their identity over a minor
passenger incident. That would be a sure way for terrorists to get the
marshals to identify themselves.

PS. I'm still not going to let a Wal-Mart wrench touch my airplane. :-)

"Dave Stadt" wrote

PS. I'm still not going to let a Wal-Mart wrench touch my airplane. :-)

Agreed. But in my experience, they are better (at our local WallyWorld,
anyway) than jiffy lube. New lows, all around.
--
Jim in NC