Human factors RECKLESSNESS

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
k.net...

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

I take the post and use it exactly as I did here to make it a negative
example for any student who happens along the path.

I liked your approach. Many others have taken a different approach.
The
difference is that you used this as an example for others, while others
have attempted to directly attempt to disuade the OP.

I think the latter a losing proposition in this particular case.

- Andrew

Without knowing anything but what I have read from the IP, I would tend to
agree with your assessment. But I don't blame those who have tried to set
him straight. In matters of flight safety , I will always opt for even the
slightest chance at setting someone straight on something as important as
an
issue like this. If it's a waste of time for the IP, at least you can
bounce
off him to get through to someone else who might be more receptive to
common
sense.
It's been my experience through the years that taking the time to deal
with
issues like this one can pay off big time. After all, if you manage to
save
just one life by stopping long enough to shed a bit of light on the truth,
it makes this whole Usenet thing worth while...at least for me anyway :-)
But you're right. It tries my patience sometimes doing it! :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)



Dudley, your one of the only one! I have learned a lot on these usnet
groups. I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!

Werid I seek instruction report back and get flamed!

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
k.net...

"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...
Dudley Henriques wrote:

I take the post and use it exactly as I did here to make it a negative
example for any student who happens along the path.

I liked your approach. Many others have taken a different approach.
The
difference is that you used this as an example for others, while others
have attempted to directly attempt to disuade the OP.

I think the latter a losing proposition in this particular case.

- Andrew

Without knowing anything but what I have read from the IP, I would tend
to
agree with your assessment. But I don't blame those who have tried to set
him straight. In matters of flight safety , I will always opt for even
the
slightest chance at setting someone straight on something as important as
an
issue like this. If it's a waste of time for the IP, at least you can
bounce
off him to get through to someone else who might be more receptive to
common
sense.
It's been my experience through the years that taking the time to deal
with
issues like this one can pay off big time. After all, if you manage to
save
just one life by stopping long enough to shed a bit of light on the
truth,
it makes this whole Usenet thing worth while...at least for me anyway :-)
But you're right. It tries my patience sometimes doing it! :-)
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)



Dudley, your one of the only one! I have learned a lot on these usnet
groups. I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!

Werid I seek instruction report back and get flamed!

Believe me, if I was "flaming you", you'd know it! :-)
It's just that some of the things you are posting here are bothering me and
I'm puzzled as to how you can view things the way you are viewing them.
For example, in another post, you make an issue out of the color of the
airplane and whether or not the airplane belonged to you or not. These
things aren't important to this issue. Only the fact that you have said you
rolled a non aerobatic airplane and seem to be quite proud of doing that.
Then you have attempted to justify all this by saying in another post that
you had a competent instructor on board when you rolled this 150.
Trust me on this one. Any CFI who would sit there fat dumb and happy on his
butt in a Cessna 150 and allow someone to roll it is NOT a competent
instructor. Hell, I shouldn't have to tell you this. You should KNOW this!
The act was not only unsafe, it was illegal. And then you come on a student
pilot's newsgroup and proceed to tell the world that they should "live for
today".
I'm sorry old buddy, but FWIW, I just don't see aviation like this, and I
sincerely hope that I've got an odds on chance of convincing YOU that this
is NOT the way to approach your flying.
If you have any respect for my opinion at all, I may have succeeded in
pointing you in a different direction. If not, at least I tried.
Hell, I'm not out here to flame you. If I thought you were a troll, I
wouldn't waste my time on you.
You think about what I've told you. I can't "make" you think differently.
That's entirely up to you. You can take that 150 out tomorrow and roll it
again. I can't stop you. But then again, after any sting from what I have
told you wears off a bit, maybe you will end up with just a little better
handle on this. If that's the case, you don't even have to let me know about
it. It's just like playing golf. If you cheat, you're cheating only
yourself.
I don't post here to show people how much better a pilot I am or how much
smarter I am at flying then they are. Like most experienced pilots, I post
here because I feel it's necessary for people like myself to at least try
and pass on to those coming up what I learned from those who came before me
and what I learned on my own.
When I post like I have to you on an issue like this one, I'm not trying to
better you, or to make you "look bad". I'm not that shallow.
In the end, YOU will have to decide for yourself about what's safe and
what's unsafe in your approach to flying. As for me.....If any small input
from me has helped you and others to make good decisions along these lines,
the time and effort I have taken on this group will have been well spent.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...
snip
Dudley, your one of the only one! I have learned a lot on these usnet
groups. I AM NOT A TROLL!!!!

Werid I seek instruction report back and get flamed!


Hello NW_pilot

I started this new thread because it was not my intention to single out your
actions, others have said all that needed to be said. I think your
instructor is more deserving of critisism than you. You are not the first
to roll or loop a flight school Cessna and I doubt that you will be the
last. I hope it has been a learning experience and that you suffer no
further problems from your public announcement. I think you should be
commended for the grace with which you have received the replies of these
groups. The important thing is that you survived to be a better pilot.

My comments were intended to stimulate thought regarding the consequences of
poor decision making that this week has resulted in two fatalities. I have
a funeral to attend and I do not know what to say to the mother who has now
lost both her champion pilot husband and her champion pilot only son.
Dudley, I would appreciate your guidance and wisdom as I am sure you have
been in my position too many times.

The study of human factors recognizes that (like Pogo) "We have seen the
problem and it is US". Controlling the aircraft is only a part of
successful flight operation, control of the pilot seems to be the largest
part of the problem.

Just my humble .02

"private" wrote in message
news:GGgce.1150342$Xk.1123548@pd7tw3no...

My comments were intended to stimulate thought regarding the consequences
of
poor decision making that this week has resulted in two fatalities. I
have
a funeral to attend and I do not know what to say to the mother who has
now
lost both her champion pilot husband and her champion pilot only son.
Dudley, I would appreciate your guidance and wisdom as I am sure you have
been in my position too many times.

Yes, I have unfortunately been in this position more than I care to remember
in my career. Counting our friends on the service jet aerobatic teams, my
wife and I can count 32 people I either flew with, worked with, or knew
professionally in our community who have been lost to fatal accidents
involving aerobatics and low altitude demonstration flying.
I believe I know how you must feel being faced with such a sad event. It
would be presumptuous of me to even attempt to advise you on the best way to
deal with it as I can't imagine a more personal thing than what you are
about to do.
From the way you write however, I also believe you will do the right thing.
Please accept my sincere best wishes and condolences for what most certainly
will be a most trying experience.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)

Dudley,

As always, thanks for being here, we all value your council and your
example.

Blue skies to all

"Dudley Henriques" dhenriques@noware .net wrote in message
nk.net...

"private" wrote in message
news:GGgce.1150342$Xk.1123548@pd7tw3no...

My comments were intended to stimulate thought regarding the
consequences
of
poor decision making that this week has resulted in two fatalities. I
have
a funeral to attend and I do not know what to say to the mother who has
now
lost both her champion pilot husband and her champion pilot only son.
Dudley, I would appreciate your guidance and wisdom as I am sure you
have
been in my position too many times.

Yes, I have unfortunately been in this position more than I care to
remember
in my career. Counting our friends on the service jet aerobatic teams, my
wife and I can count 32 people I either flew with, worked with, or knew
professionally in our community who have been lost to fatal accidents
involving aerobatics and low altitude demonstration flying.
I believe I know how you must feel being faced with such a sad event. It
would be presumptuous of me to even attempt to advise you on the best way
to
deal with it as I can't imagine a more personal thing than what you are
about to do.
From the way you write however, I also believe you will do the right
thing.
Please accept my sincere best wishes and condolences for what most
certainly
will be a most trying experience.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship
Commercial Pilot; CFI; Retired
dhenriquestrashatearthlinktrashdotnet
(take out the trash :-)

Dudley,

Your information and attitude on this newsgroup is awesome. I would
love to have you as an aerobatic instructor.

You ever around the Bay Area? I would love to meet with you and talk
with you sometime.

If you know Bob Hoover, then I am sure you knew Amiela Reid and Wayne
Handley? Those are my all time favorite airshow pilots. Before Ameila
Reid passed, I would watch her performmances at the Watsonville Fly-in
in her Cessna 150 Acro, so graceful.

Anyway, keep up the teaching, it is not lost on everybody.

Donovan
C-172 Pilot
150 hrs.

Thank you for the kind word, but I'm afraid my flying days are long over
:-)
I know Bob from the old IFPF days. He was one of our charter members.
You have a couple of real heavyweights there in Amelia and Handley. I never
met them, but both are of course well known to me. Amelia was, before her
death and remains today a legend in the California tailwheel and aerobatic
community. Handley I believe is still flying the Oracle bird. God knows what
Bob is doing these days. Probably sitting on his veranda out there in Palos
Verdes looking at the sea gulls flying over the ocean planning some "new"
maneuver to try and refusing to grow old like the rest of us.:-)
Dudley

wrote in message
oups.com...
Dudley,

Your information and attitude on this newsgroup is awesome. I would
love to have you as an aerobatic instructor.

You ever around the Bay Area? I would love to meet with you and talk
with you sometime.

If you know Bob Hoover, then I am sure you knew Amiela Reid and Wayne
Handley? Those are my all time favorite airshow pilots. Before Ameila
Reid passed, I would watch her performmances at the Watsonville Fly-in
in her Cessna 150 Acro, so graceful.

Anyway, keep up the teaching, it is not lost on everybody.

Donovan
C-172 Pilot
150 hrs.