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I'm looking to upgrade airplanes; discussion and recommendations are
requested:

History:
Private - 1994
inactive 1994-2001
started flying again after 9/11/01
Instrument - 2003
Commercial - 2004

Roughly 450 hours total time. About 100 in Cessnas 150/152/172. About 50
hours in a Cherokee 140 (with 180 HP & CS prop), 50 hours in an Arrow
and about 250 hours in Mooney M20C. Zero multi-engine time.

Ownership Experience:
Current: 1967 Mooney M20C (sole owner)
Current: 1/4 share in C-152 (I'm working on my CFI and want something to
teach in)
Previous: 1/2 share in 1967 P28A

Narrative/Mission:
I fly commercially about 75,000 miles per year and I'm looking to
replace as much of that as is reasonable. Home is Tucson, Arizona and
the majority of my commercial flying is west coast and mountain states.
Trips over 1000 NM are done only a couple of times per year.

When I travel, I must be at my destination on time. I typically leave
(commercially) the morning prior to the date I need to be somewhere.
That means I usually get to my destination in the early afternoon the
day before I need to be there. From TUS, on United (95% of my commercial
flights), I must go through either LAX or DEN, so it is rarely just a
one leg commercial flight, unless my destination is LAX or DEN.

I will fly solo about 95% of the time. The other 5% with one other
individual. This is purely a business entity. Baggage is light, clothes
and a laptop.

With respect to weather:
If I start flying myself more, leaving early the day before I need to be
somewhere, I will have an 'out' due to weather in that I should be able
to land somewhere within a four hour or so drive of my final
destination, I figure. Barring that, I can probably land somewhere and
hop on Southwest Airlines as a last resort. My final destination is
typically larger cities anyway. Returning home, I have more leeway if
weather is an issue. 80% of the time I need to be at a destination for
one day. 15% of the time, two days and 5% of the time more than two days.

Airplane Attributes:
I'm looking for speed above all else. Second and third are fuel burn and
fuel capacity. I haven't decided which is #2 and which #3, however. Of
course reliability, maintenance, purchase price, etc. are important. As
for budget, I absolutely have to stay under $200,000. Ideally under
$150,000. $100,000 to $125,000 would be very comfortable (with the
obligatory 10%-20% reserve available). I have a few airplanes in mind of
course, but what will this illustrious group recommend ? Do you need any
other data ?
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

On 2005-05-07, Ken Reed wrote:
I'm looking for speed above all else. Second and third are fuel burn and
fuel capacity.

Endurance (as fuel burn/capacity) can be a big factor in overall speed.
A nonstop 800nm trip at 135kt takes only about 15 minutes longer than
a 800nm trip at 160kt with a fuel stop. If the fuel stop requires any
deviation from the route or an instrument approach the 135kt nonstop
might be faster.

I haven't decided which is #2 and which #3, however.

If you want airline-like dispatch rates it better include weather
capabilities like turbo, anti-icing, pressurization (or oxygen), etc.

--
Ben Jackson

http://www.ben.com/

I'm looking for speed above all else. Second and third are fuel burn and
fuel capacity. I haven't decided which is #2 and which #3, however.

Endurance (as fuel burn/capacity) can be a big factor in overall speed.
A nonstop 800nm trip at 135kt takes only about 15 minutes longer than
a 800nm trip at 160kt with a fuel stop. If the fuel stop requires any
deviation from the route or an instrument approach the 135kt nonstop
might be faster.

The triad of speed, fuel burn and fuel capacity all tie together. Not
having to make the fuel stop is the best added speed there is. That's
kinda why I can't make one requirement #2 and the other #3; they're both
critical.

If you want airline-like dispatch rates it better include weather
capabilities like turbo, anti-icing, pressurization (or oxygen), etc.

It doesn't have to be to the level of the airlines. As I wrote, landing
and driving a few hours is acceptable as is landing and finishing the
trip commercially.

What is your recommendation, based on my stated needs ?
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

Ben Jackson wrote:

Endurance (as fuel burn/capacity) can be a big factor in overall speed.
A nonstop 800nm trip at 135kt takes only about 15 minutes longer than
a 800nm trip at 160kt with a fuel stop.

Most of us can't handle 6 hours without a pit stop to reduce hydraulic pressure.
I'll take the 160 knot plane with the smaller tanks.

George Patterson
There's plenty of room for all of God's creatures. Right next to the
mashed potatoes.

I assume that when you say "speed" you are talking about minimium trip time.
Obviously range is a big part of this, maybe bigger than actual TAS. Also,
are you talking about flying in virtually all weather or just most of the
time? Are your trips evenly distributed thoughout the seasons? How many
trips will involve crossing the Sierra or Rockies? At night? What is the
operating budget? It is going to cost at least $50K/yr to operate an
airplane that will make 75+% of the trips. If your trips are mostly to
SoCal from Tuscon, just buy a high performance turbocharged single and you
will be able to complete most of your trips at low cost. If a lot of trips
are to somewhere in the PNW or the Plains (aka: tornado alley) then you are
going to need deice and radar. Can you just fly to Pheonix and then fly
direct on SW or UAL?

I had a similiar situation to yours. I lived in Minden NV, flew a Turbo
Lance and I had about 85% success in being able to fly myself to
destinations mostly in CA, arriving on time and not getting stranded on the
California side of the mountains when it was time to return. To go from 85%
to 99%, the minimium airplane had to have radar, pressurization, deice and
(two) turbine engines. I had some disadvantages compared to you, such as
being an hour from the nearest commercial airport (Reno) which only had
limited flights.

Think long and hard about what you want to accomplish and what you are
willing to do and pay for it. There is no airplane that will make your
trips 99% of the time even at four times your budget but almost any airplane
will make your trips most of the time.

What are the deficiencies of your current airplane (the Mooney) for making
your trips?

Mike
MU-2


"Ken Reed" wrote in message
ink.net...
I'm looking to upgrade airplanes; discussion and recommendations are
requested:

History:
Private - 1994
inactive 1994-2001
started flying again after 9/11/01
Instrument - 2003
Commercial - 2004

Roughly 450 hours total time. About 100 in Cessnas 150/152/172. About 50
hours in a Cherokee 140 (with 180 HP & CS prop), 50 hours in an Arrow and
about 250 hours in Mooney M20C. Zero multi-engine time.

Ownership Experience:
Current: 1967 Mooney M20C (sole owner)
Current: 1/4 share in C-152 (I'm working on my CFI and want something to
teach in)
Previous: 1/2 share in 1967 P28A

Narrative/Mission:
I fly commercially about 75,000 miles per year and I'm looking to replace
as much of that as is reasonable. Home is Tucson, Arizona and the majority
of my commercial flying is west coast and mountain states. Trips over 1000
NM are done only a couple of times per year.

When I travel, I must be at my destination on time. I typically leave
(commercially) the morning prior to the date I need to be somewhere. That
means I usually get to my destination in the early afternoon the day
before I need to be there. From TUS, on United (95% of my commercial
flights), I must go through either LAX or DEN, so it is rarely just a one
leg commercial flight, unless my destination is LAX or DEN.

I will fly solo about 95% of the time. The other 5% with one other
individual. This is purely a business entity. Baggage is light, clothes
and a laptop.

With respect to weather:
If I start flying myself more, leaving early the day before I need to be
somewhere, I will have an 'out' due to weather in that I should be able to
land somewhere within a four hour or so drive of my final destination, I
figure. Barring that, I can probably land somewhere and hop on Southwest
Airlines as a last resort. My final destination is typically larger cities
anyway. Returning home, I have more leeway if weather is an issue. 80% of
the time I need to be at a destination for one day. 15% of the time, two
days and 5% of the time more than two days.

Airplane Attributes:
I'm looking for speed above all else. Second and third are fuel burn and
fuel capacity. I haven't decided which is #2 and which #3, however. Of
course reliability, maintenance, purchase price, etc. are important. As
for budget, I absolutely have to stay under $200,000. Ideally under
$150,000. $100,000 to $125,000 would be very comfortable (with the
obligatory 10%-20% reserve available). I have a few airplanes in mind of
course, but what will this illustrious group recommend ? Do you need any
other data ?
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

I assume that when you say "speed" you are talking about minimium trip time.
Obviously range is a big part of this, maybe bigger than actual TAS.

Right, overall trip time.

Also, are you talking about flying in virtually all weather or just
most of the time?

Most of the time.


Are your trips evenly distributed thoughout the seasons?

Pretty much. December is slow, November a bit slow. The other months are
about equal.


How many trips will involve crossing the Sierra or Rockies?

Sierra, every two months, Rockies, twice a year.

At night?

Virtually never. Unless it is a short trip, I won't fly after a full day
of work. Generally I have an entire day for travel, a one day
requirement to be somewhere and the next entire day to travel home.


What is the operating budget? It is going to cost at least $50K/yr to
operate an airplane that will make 75+% of the trips. If your trips are
mostly to SoCal from Tuscon, just buy a high performance turbocharged
single and you will be able to complete most of your trips at low cost.

Figure six trips to SoCal, another four to Las Vegas. A handful to NM,
TX, CO per year. The TC single is highest on my list right now - the
question is *which* TC single ?

If a lot of trips are to somewhere in the PNW or the Plains (aka: tornado
alley) then you are going to need deice and radar.

There's my challenge. I average eight trips per year to Portland, OR. I
may decide to still fly those commercially, depending on the airplane I
end up with. East coast stuff will remain commercial. I know I can't
eliminate commercial travel entirely, I just want to reduce it as much
as practical.

Can you just fly to Pheonix and then fly direct on SW or UAL?

I can drive to PHX. From my house, TUS is about 40 minutes and PHX is
about a 90 minute drive. By the time I drive to the airport, preflight,
pull the airplane out and secure the hangar and fly to PHX, it is a wash
to drive with respect to time. I really want to avoid the whole TSA
thing as much as possible. That random "strip search" a couple of weeks
ago was the final straw.

I had a similiar situation to yours. I lived in Minden NV, flew a Turbo
Lance and I had about 85% success in being able to fly myself to
destinations mostly in CA, arriving on time and not getting stranded on the
California side of the mountains when it was time to return. To go from 85%
to 99%, the minimium airplane had to have radar, pressurization, deice and
(two) turbine engines.

My furthest trip would be a bit shy of 1000 NM. If I can do that
non-stop with reasonable speed, that's about 6 hours. I typically depart
at 7 am so that would get me there around 1 pm. If I have weather
issues, as long as I can get within a 4-6 hour drive, that will still be
a success.

Think long and hard about what you want to accomplish and what you are
willing to do and pay for it. There is no airplane that will make your
trips 99% of the time even at four times your budget but almost any airplane
will make your trips most of the time.
What are the deficiencies of your current airplane (the Mooney) for making
your trips?

Overall time, primarily. Altitude secondarily. My 'C' model Mooney may
require two fuel stops (depending on wind) and a total time for a 1000
NM trip of close to 10 hours. If I can pick up 30 kts of TAS and make it
a one fuel stop trip, that shortens my overall time to maybe seven
hours. Non-stop might be six hours. Saving 40% on time would make me
want to do it. I don't have a strong desire to spend 10 hours getting
somewhere in one day in a GA airplane. Intermediate trips would all be
non-stop versus some of them one stop in my current Mooney.
---
Ken Reed
http://www.dentalzzz.com

First, I have to say that price limitations are not the best budgeting tool.
Could you say how much you want to put down and how much you want to spend
per year? Also, have you figured what your yearly hours might be? You can
likely buy more plane than you can afford to operate if you use the price
cap system.

If you liked the M20C, I would say that you should look at another M20.

You can likely get a K model in your price range with deice. It would be
hard to beat for Speed, Burn, and Range ( I assume that's what you really
want when you say fuel capacity, unless you really want to avoid high fuel
prices). A turbo normalized J might be another choice.

You could possibly find a TLS/Bravo (M model) in this range, but not likely
with deice. The Bravo is faster and more comfortable, but higher fuel burn
and maintenance. An Ovation is likely out of your range, but it is faster
down low, and less to maintain than an M20M. If you can go this route, it
will pay back buy having you more rested when you get there. These planes
are really more comfortable and have less vibration than the shorter
Mooney's.

The Bo's are worth looking at as well. They are higher priced, but you can
go older. Once again, deice and turbo normalized would likely be best.