Cessna Over DC -- NASA Form?

"Mike Granby" wrote in message
oups.com...

If they file a NASA form, will it save their tickets?

According to the ASRS immunity policy
(http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/immunity_nf.htm), if they file ASRS forms in a
timely manner, and if their violation was inadvertent, and if they haven't
been found to have committed another FAR violation within the past five
years, then no civil penalty or certificate suspension can be imposed. (I
doubt that a student pilot flying with his CFI could be found to have
violated the FARs by getting lost, in any event.)

--Gary

In article ,
"Gary Drescher" wrote:
According to the ASRS immunity policy
(http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/immunity_nf.htm), if they file ASRS forms in a
timely manner, and if their violation was inadvertent, and if they haven't
been found to have committed another FAR violation within the past five
years, then no civil penalty or certificate suspension can be imposed. (I
doubt that a student pilot flying with his CFI could be found to have
violated the FARs by getting lost, in any event.)


"Getting lost" isn't the violation, the violation is busting the ADIZ
and then prohibited airspace.

It doesn't look like this was a student and CFI, it looks like this was
a student and an older private pilot, experience unknown.

Frankly, I'm not sure how you can screw up that badly. I can see
clipping the ADIZ, but to come within 3 miles of downtown, or even close
to that, is penetrating pretty far into where they were not supposed to
be. I will be interested to hear if any further explanation is
forthcoming, because I'd really like to understand how a VFR pilot makes
such a huge mistake unless the pilot was not proficient and did not
adequately prepare for the flight. I'm also not sure that I'd be flying
around down in that area without some type of ground or sat-based
navigation instrument to help ensure that I avoid the ADIZ. The entire
thing is a little puzzling.

If there are no consequences for busting the ADIZ, you might as well not
have the ADIZ. I think the ADIZ is nothing but feel-good BS for the
self-serving politicians, but take that away and you still have Class B
airspace and prohibited areas, which appear to have been violated.



JKG

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote in message
...
If there are no consequences for busting the ADIZ, you might as well not
have the ADIZ.

Nevertheless, under current law and policy, there can be no enforcement
consequences if the ASRS immunity conditions are met (inadvertent,
non-criminal violation; no accident; ASRS report filed within ten days; and
no prior finding of FAR violation within five years).

--Gary

On Wed, 11 May 2005 23:16:28 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote in
::

Nevertheless, under current law and policy, there can be no enforcement
consequences if the ASRS immunity conditions are met (inadvertent,
non-criminal violation; no accident; ASRS report filed within ten days; and
no prior finding of FAR violation within five years).

Would that preclude remedial training, testing?

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 11 May 2005 23:16:28 -0400, "Gary Drescher"
wrote in
::

Nevertheless, under current law and policy, there can be no enforcement
consequences if the ASRS immunity conditions are met (inadvertent,
non-criminal violation; no accident; ASRS report filed within ten days;
and
no prior finding of FAR violation within five years).

Would that preclude remedial training, testing?

You're right, that's a possibility. The FAA just can't take any *punitive*
action if the ASRS conditions are met.

--Gary

Gary Drescher wrote:

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote in message
...

If there are no consequences for busting the ADIZ, you might as well not
have the ADIZ.


Nevertheless, under current law and policy, there can be no enforcement
consequences if the ASRS immunity conditions are met (inadvertent,
non-criminal violation; no accident; ASRS report filed within ten days; and
no prior finding of FAR violation within five years).

--Gary



I know first hand of a pilot who busted a presidential TFR.. had the
F-16's flying off his wing. He was grounded for a few months. I dont see
how the NASA form saved him any.

Dave

"Dave S" wrote in message
k.net...


Gary Drescher wrote:

"Jonathan Goodish" wrote in message
...

If there are no consequences for busting the ADIZ, you might as well not
have the ADIZ.

Nevertheless, under current law and policy, there can be no enforcement
consequences if the ASRS immunity conditions are met (inadvertent,
non-criminal violation; no accident; ASRS report filed within ten days;
and no prior finding of FAR violation within five years).

--Gary

I know first hand of a pilot who busted a presidential TFR.. had the
F-16's flying off his wing. He was grounded for a few months. I dont see
how the NASA form saved him any.

Do you know if he filed the form? Did he have any other violations in the
previous five years?

--Gary

Gary Drescher wrote:


Do you know if he filed the form? Did he have any other violations in the
previous five years?

I can guarantee you that the "emergency" rules have been invoked to
avoid any "get out of jail free cards." Any pilot that violates
DC airspace will get at last 30 days suspension.

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
Gary Drescher wrote:

Do you know if he filed the form? Did he have any other violations in the
previous five years?

I can guarantee you that the "emergency" rules have been invoked to avoid
any "get out of jail free cards." Any pilot that violates
DC airspace will get at last 30 days suspension.

I don't see how the government could elect to "avoid" abiding by its
declared immunity policy. Immunity deals (even for serious crimes, which
this isn't) are crucial to our legal system, and as such are taken
seriously; the whole system would fall apart if immunity guarantees were not
binding.

There've been many DC ADIZ violations. Are you aware of any instance in
which a pilot met the ASRS immunity conditions, but the promised immunity
was denied?

--Gary

On Thu, 12 May 2005 03:37:23 GMT, Dave S
wrote in t::

I dont see how the NASA form saved him any.

Did he meet all the NASA qualifications?