Could training at a towered airport have prevented the ADIZ bust

Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone on
the radio.

What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL-IA Student
Arrow N2104T

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

Jack Allison wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone
on the radio.
What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?

I was not the original poster but the 'not talking to anyone' is not
speculation. Regularly there are posts about what to say when you
go near a Class B or even Class C airspace on these very same
newsgroups. I've read where people had to fly 2 hours to get to
the nearest controlled airport. Certainly they can talk to ATC
enroute but I'd bet many of these people are just not used to
it and scared away from talking to ATC. Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.

Gerald

"G. Sylvester" wrote in message
...
Jack Allison wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone
on the radio.
What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?

I was not the original poster but the 'not talking to anyone' is not
speculation. Regularly there are posts about what to say when you
go near a Class B or even Class C airspace on these very same
newsgroups. I've read where people had to fly 2 hours to get to
the nearest controlled airport. Certainly they can talk to ATC
enroute but I'd bet many of these people are just not used to
it and scared away from talking to ATC. Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.

Gerald

Of course there are some small number of exceptions, just like those that
have no idea what to do at an airport if there is not a controller available
to tell them what to do. Still, the original post was nonsense.

"G. Sylvester" wrote in message
...
Jack Allison wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone
on the radio.
What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?

I was not the original poster but the 'not talking to anyone' is not
speculation. Regularly there are posts about what to say when you
go near a Class B or even Class C airspace on these very same
newsgroups. I've read where people had to fly 2 hours to get to
the nearest controlled airport. Certainly they can talk to ATC
enroute but I'd bet many of these people are just not used to
it and scared away from talking to ATC. Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.


I can (and do) regularly fly from Montrose to Rapid City and don't have to
talk to anyone but myself until I land.

G. Sylvester wrote:
Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.

Fly 20 miles from Smoketown in any direction and you have your choice
of B, C, or D airspace to work with. The fact that learning to operate
in controlled airspace wouldn't be hard doesn't by any means imply that
the pilot isn't a doorknob. From charts I saw it looked like they were
flying a rhumb line that cut right through DC. I'd have the pilot
tested for early-onset Alzheimer's.

wrote:
G. Sylvester wrote:

Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.
Fly 20 miles from Smoketown in any direction and you have your choice
of B, C, or D airspace to work with.

I wasn't specifically talking about Smoketown, just giving the
other side of the story. I just looked and you're right, it's about
50nm from BWI and PHL. Even in a blazing fast C150 that would
take all of 30 minutes to be on the airport. I'm wondering how
did these guys not bust all the other airspace yet practically
flew over the White House.

From charts I saw it looked like they were
flying a rhumb line that cut right through DC. I'd have the pilot
tested for early-onset Alzheimer's.

No kidding.

My friend's dad is a 20000 pilot for a major. he owns a C310. He
once said he's amazed at how he can take off from his airport northwest
of ORD and fly 2+ hours without ever talking to anyone. I'm sure others
actually do it.

Gerald

"G. Sylvester" wrote in message
om...
wrote:
G. Sylvester wrote:

Granted most people do
talk to ATC but it is very likely there are those out there
that rarely talk to ATC.
Fly 20 miles from Smoketown in any direction and you have your choice
of B, C, or D airspace to work with.

I wasn't specifically talking about Smoketown, just giving the
other side of the story. I just looked and you're right, it's about
50nm from BWI and PHL. Even in a blazing fast C150 that would
take all of 30 minutes to be on the airport. I'm wondering how
did these guys not bust all the other airspace yet practically
flew over the White House.

From charts I saw it looked like they were
flying a rhumb line that cut right through DC. I'd have the pilot
tested for early-onset Alzheimer's.

No kidding.

My friend's dad is a 20000 pilot for a major. he owns a C310. He
once said he's amazed at how he can take off from his airport northwest
of ORD and fly 2+ hours without ever talking to anyone. I'm sure others
actually do it.

Gerald

Why does he find that amazing? You can fly coast to coast and never talk to
ATC or you can talk to ATC for the entire trip. Whatever floats your boat.

G. Sylvester wrote:

My friend's dad is a 20000 pilot for a major. he owns a C310. He
once said he's amazed at how he can take off from his airport northwest
of ORD and fly 2+ hours without ever talking to anyone. I'm sure others
actually do it.

I don't know why he finds that amazing. I've made the trip from New Jersey to
Knoxville, TN several times without speaking to any controllers except those at
Knoxville. That's over 600 miles each way. The only other radio calls I made
were the usual ones ("three miles out", "entering downwind", etc.) at my
untowered fuel stop. When I flew down to Fort Myers, I talked to Orlando on the
way down. On the way back, I didn't bother -- just went under it. Many other
trips -- same procedure.

George Patterson
"Naked" means you ain't got no clothes on; "nekkid" means you ain't got
no clothes on - and are up to somethin'.

George Patterson wrote:
G. Sylvester wrote:
I don't know why he finds that amazing. I've made the trip from New
Jersey to Knoxville, TN several times without speaking to any
controllers except those at Knoxville. That's over 600 miles each way.
The only other radio calls I made were the usual ones ("three miles
out", "entering downwind", etc.) at my untowered fuel stop. When I flew
down to Fort Myers, I talked to Orlando on the way down. On the way
back, I didn't bother -- just went under it. Many other trips -- same
procedure.

I said amazing. I did not say 'surprising.' Of course he knows it's
not abnormal. Just that after talking to ATC for a thousand or whatever
number of hours per year, he finds it amazing that he can go up flying
and never talk to anyone. He's so used to it, it is just amazing that
he is not required to. It's not like he was blown away.

So interesting that people are saying "I can fly 600nm and never talk to
anyone." Many people said that how can there be people who don't know
how to talk to ATC. Well there's your answer. You don't have to and
some choose not to so they lose their skills.

Gerald

In article ,
Jack Allison wrote:
Jonathan Goodish wrote:

If you fly from an uncontrolled field and aren't an instrument pilot,
there is a good chance that you very rarely, if ever, talk to anyone on
the radio.

What do you base this theory on? Speculation? Gut feel? Facts?

Observation. I live in an area surrounding a large Class B airport, and
there are plenty of pilots who rarely, if ever, use the radio at
non-towered airports. These same pilots don't venture near towered
airports or the Class B because they don't want to talk on the radio.
They also typically don't venture out if the wind is stronger than
"calm" and/or if there are clouds in the sky.

I will say that the "younger" pilots around here seem to have more
towered-airport training, and appear to be less inhibited about talking
on the radio. Many of the flight schools at non-towered airports around
here have dried up, leaving the mega-schools at the larger towered
airports for flight training.



JKG