Anyone try paragliding?

Michael 182 wrote:
I'm taking lessons next week. Anyone here try it? Is being a pilot
any
advantage at all?

Michael

I used to teach paragliding and have some not-so-positive opinions on
the subject...

1. You are under a wing that can and does collapse. In fact, in any
sort of thermally conditions you *will* experience a partial to full
deflation.

2. Check out the flying envelope---stall at around 25, fastest cruise
at around 35. Flying range is only about 10 or 15.

The forward motion keeps the wing inflated. Two problems with this: A
reversal of air (due to a gust, for example) causes the wing to
deflate. And Two, the necessity for a greater forward speed, say to get
down out of excessive lift, is almost non-existant. This has caused
paraglider pilots to use marginal techniques to penetrate excessive
forward winds.(intentional partial deflations, for example).

3. Paragliders are not designed to take terminal velocities like
parachutes. If you collapse and then fall a distance, the lines could
rip right out of the canopy (or snap themselves).

4. Pargliders that are used for training are often not well maintained.
Fabric is worn from UV light exposure and leaks air. This causes the
paraglider to loose lift and stall at a higher than normal speed. Lines
stretch over time and cause the aerodynamics of the canopy to change.

Ok...that's the bad news. On the plus side is:

If you fly in laminar air--say at the beach--where there is no thermal
activity and the winds are fairly predictable, and you fly with newer
equipment under a competent instructor you have a great chance of
having some great fun.

Sorry about the warnings but I watched a few people die on these things
and just thought you'd like to go into it with your eyes open.

Have you considered Hang-gliding? It's much safer!


Antonio

"tuttie" wrote

Have you considered Hang-gliding? It's much safer!

Really? I am surprised. Cites?
--
Jim in NC

I cannot cite specific statisitical data, if that's what you mean. I
can only respond anecdotally that hang gliders have a much greater
flying envelope--stall at about 25 and have forward speeds up to 70.
They have a rigid frame and therefore are not dependent on forward
motion to retain a wing shape. They also fly a whole heck of a lot
better as far as glide ratios and handling go. You are also surrounded
by a metal frame which affords a little protection in case of impact.
They have been around a lot longer so the training regimen is well
established. It also takes more training to fly them ... which, I'm
guessing, translates to better piloting.

Paragliding is sort of like a carnival ride---slow and pleasant while
you sit upright like you are in a swing. Hang gliding is much more
exciting because of the speeds, greater glide ratios, and the prone
position. In the prone position you don't really see the glider above
you because you are suspended beneath it. It gives you the feeling
like you are a bird or Superman as you lean this way or that way and
get an immediate response to your inputs. It is really great to soar
with the seagulls along the beach, feel the temperature changes in a
thermal, or smell the fir trees as you swoop over top them. Fun
flying!!


Antonio

"tuttie" wrote in message
oups.com...


I used to teach paragliding and have some not-so-positive opinions on
the subject...
snip

Antonio


Very good info. I may reconsider... Thanks,

Michael

On Sat, 21 May 2005 22:04:19 -0600, "Michael 182"
wrote:
Very good info. I may reconsider... Thanks,

Michael, don't let all the scare stories scare you. Yes, paragliding
has its risks, just as does GA. Like GA, those risks can be reduced
by good training and careful decision making, and also like GA, can't
be eliminated. It's all about flying within your limitations and the
limitations of the aircraft.

I have around 200 hours now in _powered_ paragliders (following around
600 hours GA). Powered paragliding (PPG) is about the most fun I've
had in the air, and the motor gives the flexibility to avoid the
thermic conditions required to keep an unpowered paraglider or hang
glider aloft. A year or so ago, I looked at the statistics. The
number of PPG pilots in the U.S. isn't all that large and data is hard
to come by, but as near as I could figure, the fatality rate per hour
is about the same as GA (though the risk of a minor injury is higher).
Unpowered paragliding is somewhat (but not horribly or unacceptably)
worse.

To answer your original question, GA experience does help as general
background... not so much at first, or for the actual flying, but if
you continue with it there's some stuff that you won't have to relearn
(aerodynamics, airspace, regs, etc.)

-Dana
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On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 19:59:55 -0400, Dana M. Hague
d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net wrote in
::

Powered paragliding (PPG) is about the most fun I've
had in the air ...

A subscription to this magazine will give one an idea of the state of
the PPG art: http://www.ultraflight.com/

"Dana M. Hague" d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 May 2005 22:04:19 -0600, "Michael 182"
wrote:
Very good info. I may reconsider... Thanks,

Michael, don't let all the scare stories scare you. Yes, paragliding
has its risks, just as does GA. Like GA, those risks can be reduced
by good training and careful decision making, and also like GA, can't
be eliminated. It's all about flying within your limitations and the
limitations of the aircraft.

With a big emphasis on "the limitations of the aircraft". One huge problem
with a paraglider is that the wing can be compromised by turbulent air or
thermic action at the worst possible time, during your approach to land.
When you're 30 feet above the ground and your wing is suddenly 50% collapsed
due to localized turbulent air or a nearby thermal lifting off, no amount of
training is going to help you deal with the 30 foot plummet you are about to
experience because there isn't going to be time to recover.

One very important thing to keep in mind is that conditions that a GA pilot
wouldn't normally give a second thought to can be very significant to an
aircraft like a paraglider or an ultralight, especially when your legs and
feet are your landing gear.

"BDS" wrote in message
...
"Dana M. Hague" d(dash)m(dash)hague(at)comcast(dot)net wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 May 2005 22:04:19 -0600, "Michael 182"
wrote:
Very good info. I may reconsider... Thanks,

Michael, don't let all the scare stories scare you. Yes, paragliding
has its risks, just as does GA. Like GA, those risks can be reduced
by good training and careful decision making, and also like GA, can't
be eliminated. It's all about flying within your limitations and the
limitations of the aircraft.

With a big emphasis on "the limitations of the aircraft". One huge
problem
with a paraglider is that the wing can be compromised by turbulent air or
thermic action at the worst possible time, during your approach to land.
When you're 30 feet above the ground and your wing is suddenly 50%
collapsed
due to localized turbulent air or a nearby thermal lifting off, no amount
of
training is going to help you deal with the 30 foot plummet you are about
to
experience because there isn't going to be time to recover.


Well spoken description of a significant risk. IMHO this risk increases
with the higher performance PGs. It claimed one of the very best PPL/HG/PG
(several time national champion) pilots I have known.

One very important thing to keep in mind is that conditions that a GA
pilot
wouldn't normally give a second thought to can be very significant to an
aircraft like a paraglider or an ultralight, especially when your legs and
feet are your landing gear.

From personal experience my preference for free flight is hang gliders.
While they are a flex wing they have a ridgid frame and have much better
penetration and fly more like a traditional wing. Soaring them is a truly
exqusite experience. Current models are well developed and proven designs,
and even intermediate types offer good performance.

On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 06:10:53 GMT, "private"
wrote:
Well spoken description of a significant risk. IMHO this risk increases
with the higher performance PGs. It claimed one of the very best PPL/HG/PG
(several time national champion) pilots I have known.

The higher performance PG's are definitely riskier to fly. However,
the performance of even entry level PG's has gotten so close to the
performance models that most recreational pilots stick with the basic
models nowadays.

From personal experience my preference for free flight is hang gliders.
While they are a flex wing they have a ridgid frame and have much better
penetration and fly more like a traditional wing. Soaring them is a truly
exqusite experience. Current models are well developed and proven designs,
and even intermediate types offer good performance.

The flying is very different; certainly a HG has better performance...
but you lose in portability, and the higher speed adds its own element
of risk. Actually, HG and PG accident statistics are pretty similar.

-Dana


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On Thu, 01 Sep 2005 01:05:00 GMT, "BDS" wrote:

With a big emphasis on "the limitations of the aircraft". One huge problem
with a paraglider is that the wing can be compromised by turbulent air or
thermic action at the worst possible time... no amount of
training is going to help you...

True. However, the training I refer to includes how to avoid these
conditions, often (at least by powered paragliders) by flying in the
calm air of early morning or evening.

One very important thing to keep in mind is that conditions that a GA pilot
wouldn't normally give a second thought to can be very significant to an
aircraft like a paraglider or an ultralight, especially when your legs and
feet are your landing gear.

No argument there.

-Dana
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