USS America

Walt & others,

Unfortunately, and as much as we would otherwise prefer, it is not possible
to save each and every one of these great ships. The costs of such endeavors
are daunting and an unforeseen turn of events (like 9/11's impact on
tourism) can easily overwhelm even the best-founded preservation and
exhibition plans. One need look no farther than the troubles the Aircraft
Carrier Hornet Foundation is currently experiencing. My own feeling is that
we are probably doing well if we are able to preserve one or at most two of
each class of these great ships. Beyond that, the economics become very
dicey, IMHO.

I can certainly understand and sympathize with everyone who has seen any
ship on which they have served come to its end, especially if that ship
holds memories of camaraderie and jobs well done. In my own case, every ship
on which I have ever served or just visited is either razor blades (USS
CORAL SEA (CV-43), USS SYLVANIA (AFS-2)), reposing in Davy Jones' Locker
(USS BRAINE (DD-630): sold to Argentina and later expended as an Exocet
target), or awaiting its ultimate fate (USS RANGER (CV-61): stricken from
the Naval Vessel Register last year).

--
Mike Kanze

"The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation
between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting
done by fools and its thinking by cowards."

- Sir William Francis Butler

"Walt Morgan" wrote in message
news:1116770064.e572bb6237e7e614504f29062f70f8ee@t eranews...

It makes you wonder. doesn't it? Why the America and not one of the
othere retired carriers. I'll bet real money that the same doesn't
happen to the JFK when she's retired.
I was on the America for the '81 cruise to the Med and IO We were the
first carrier to transit the Suez Canal since, what 1956? We made the
entire cruise without losing a plane. Should have gotten the battle E
for that cruise. But the powers that be thought it was politically
incorrect that a non-nuke was a better at its job than a nuke. I did
the subsequent '83 cruise also. A fine ship with a fine crew.

Walt
ISC, USN (RET)

Sun, 22 May 2005 05:23:36 GMT, Dave in San Diego
wrote:

Retired Carrier Sunk Off Atlantic Coast

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050521/...s/carrier_sunk

It's still intersting that they chose the America. In addition to
being ships campany on the America I made 3 cruises on the USS Midway
with CCG-3 Staff, did pre-deployment work-ups on the USS Coral Sea,
USS Hancock and the USS Ranger (74-76). During 68-69 I made cruises on
the USS Kitty Hawk and the USS Constellation as part of CCG-5/CTF-77.
Of all those ships the Ranger was the worst. Not operationally but
materially. Evedy time we left the pier we went on water hours. Coral
Sea was suppose to be in terrible shape. There were rtumors, and IIRC
an artile in a SanDiego papers, that she was in such terrible shape
that you could stomp real hard a punch a hole in her hull throught the
rust. Of course she made several deployments after that and was still
steaming up until the day they decommissioned her.
IMHO the USS Midway was the best. We did an exercise with the
Enterprises once and launched more planes with two cats than she could
launch with four.But then Midway was a full time carrier. All the
carriers deployed to Japan were and are full time carriers.
But in the end I suspect the America, having not gone through SLEP,
was in the worst material condition.
I'll add one thing, who will bet that the Kitty Hawk is not preserved?

Walt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:01:40 -0700, "Mike Kanze"
wrote:

Walt & others,

Unfortunately, and as much as we would otherwise prefer, it is not possible
to save each and every one of these great ships. The costs of such endeavors
are daunting and an unforeseen turn of events (like 9/11's impact on
tourism) can easily overwhelm even the best-founded preservation and
exhibition plans. One need look no farther than the troubles the Aircraft
Carrier Hornet Foundation is currently experiencing. My own feeling is that
we are probably doing well if we are able to preserve one or at most two of
each class of these great ships. Beyond that, the economics become very
dicey, IMHO.

I can certainly understand and sympathize with everyone who has seen any
ship on which they have served come to its end, especially if that ship
holds memories of camaraderie and jobs well done. In my own case, every ship
on which I have ever served or just visited is either razor blades (USS
CORAL SEA (CV-43), USS SYLVANIA (AFS-2)), reposing in Davy Jones' Locker
(USS BRAINE (DD-630): sold to Argentina and later expended as an Exocet
target), or awaiting its ultimate fate (USS RANGER (CV-61): stricken from
the Naval Vessel Register last year).

Walt,

Your observations are probably typical, for any range of ships similar to
those you cited.

Of all those ships the Ranger was the worst.

No argument here. Although my experience aboard her was very short (1 week),
I do have some "inside knowledge" as my Dad was her Air Boss during the
early 1960s. Even then her 1200 psi power plant was a bitch.

There were rtumors, and IIRC an artile in a SanDiego papers, that [CORAL
SEA] was in such terrible shape that you could stomp real hard a punch a
hole in her hull throught the rust.

I have heard (or heard of) that gripe expressed about any less-than
"well-loved" ship, starting with my 1966 Midshipman cruise aboard USS BRAINE
(DD-630). The BRAINE's variant was that you shouldn't wield the chipping
hammer too smartly against the hull for fear of it going right on through.

All the carriers deployed to Japan were and are full time carriers.

And they "lived" in a shipyard (Yokosuka) when not operating, which
certainly did not hurt their material condition.

--
Mike Kanze

"The nation that will insist upon drawing a broad line of demarcation
between the fighting man and the thinking man is liable to find its fighting
done by fools and its thinking by cowards."

- Sir William Francis Butler

"Walt Morgan" wrote in message
news:1116946614.354790feb20ca353469974986bb9e7cc@t eranews...
It's still intersting that they chose the America. In addition to
being ships campany on the America I made 3 cruises on the USS Midway
with CCG-3 Staff, did pre-deployment work-ups on the USS Coral Sea,
USS Hancock and the USS Ranger (74-76). During 68-69 I made cruises on
the USS Kitty Hawk and the USS Constellation as part of CCG-5/CTF-77.
Of all those ships the Ranger was the worst. Not operationally but
materially. Evedy time we left the pier we went on water hours. Coral
Sea was suppose to be in terrible shape. There were rtumors, and IIRC
an artile in a SanDiego papers, that she was in such terrible shape
that you could stomp real hard a punch a hole in her hull throught the
rust. Of course she made several deployments after that and was still
steaming up until the day they decommissioned her.
IMHO the USS Midway was the best. We did an exercise with the
Enterprises once and launched more planes with two cats than she could
launch with four.But then Midway was a full time carrier. All the
carriers deployed to Japan were and are full time carriers.
But in the end I suspect the America, having not gone through SLEP,
was in the worst material condition.
I'll add one thing, who will bet that the Kitty Hawk is not preserved?

Walt

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:01:40 -0700, "Mike Kanze"
wrote:

Walt & others,

Unfortunately, and as much as we would otherwise prefer, it is not
possible
to save each and every one of these great ships. The costs of such
endeavors
are daunting and an unforeseen turn of events (like 9/11's impact on
tourism) can easily overwhelm even the best-founded preservation and
exhibition plans. One need look no farther than the troubles the Aircraft
Carrier Hornet Foundation is currently experiencing. My own feeling is
that
we are probably doing well if we are able to preserve one or at most two
of
each class of these great ships. Beyond that, the economics become very
dicey, IMHO.

I can certainly understand and sympathize with everyone who has seen any
ship on which they have served come to its end, especially if that ship
holds memories of camaraderie and jobs well done. In my own case, every
ship
on which I have ever served or just visited is either razor blades (USS
CORAL SEA (CV-43), USS SYLVANIA (AFS-2)), reposing in Davy Jones' Locker
(USS BRAINE (DD-630): sold to Argentina and later expended as an Exocet
target), or awaiting its ultimate fate (USS RANGER (CV-61): stricken from
the Naval Vessel Register last year).

"Mike Kanze" wrote in
:

[redacted]

And they "lived" in a shipyard (Yokosuka) when not operating, which
certainly did not hurt their material condition.

I don't have statistics for other carriers, but in my three years in
Midway (May '80 - May '83) I present these:

At sea - @ 540 days
In port Yokosuka - @ 275 days
In port elsewhere - @ 275 days

Of the in port Yokosuka time, only once did we spend more that 21 days at
a time there, and that was the 76 day EISRA (free donut if you know what
that spells out to) in 1981 or 1982.

Since we had such short in port periods, it was always in an industrial
environment.

BTW, y'all need to come to SD to see the Midway. They are opening more
and more of it up all the time. Most recent new areas are the Foc'sl and
an engine room.

Dave in San Diego
AT1 USN (Ret)
CV-41 '80 - '83

"Dave in San Diego" wrote in message
. ..
"Mike Kanze" wrote in
:

[redacted]

And they "lived" in a shipyard (Yokosuka) when not operating, which
certainly did not hurt their material condition.

I don't have statistics for other carriers, but in my three years in
Midway (May '80 - May '83) I present these:

At sea - @ 540 days
In port Yokosuka - @ 275 days
In port elsewhere - @ 275 days

Of the in port Yokosuka time, only once did we spend more that 21 days at
a time there, and that was the 76 day EISRA (free donut if you know what
that spells out to) in 1981 or 1982.

Since we had such short in port periods, it was always in an industrial
environment.

BTW, y'all need to come to SD to see the Midway. They are opening more
and more of it up all the time. Most recent new areas are the Foc'sl and
an engine room.

Dave in San Diego
AT1 USN (Ret)
CV-41 '80 - '83






EISRA (free donut if you know what that spells out to)
Emergency In Service Refit Activity?????

"_" wrote in :


EISRA (free donut if you know what that spells out to)
Emergency In Service Refit Activity?????

Not even close. I'll take a few more guesses before I spell it out.

Dave

On Wed, 25 May 2005 16:49:04 GMT, Dave in San Diego wrote:

"_" wrote in :


EISRA (free donut if you know what that spells out to)
Emergency In Service Refit Activity?????

Not even close. I'll take a few more guesses before I spell it out.

I Googled it. It's a mouthful.

--

-Jeff B.
zoomie at fastmail dot fm

Dave in San Diego wrote:

"_" wrote in :


EISRA (free donut if you know what that spells out to)
Emergency In Service Refit Activity?????

Not even close. I'll take a few more guesses before I spell it out.

Dave

Excellence in Statistical Reporting Award
(I take cream and sugar)
--


-Gord.

"I'm trying to get as old as I can,
and it must be working 'cause I'm
the oldest now that I've ever been"

"Dave in San Diego" wrote in message
. ..
"_" wrote in :


EISRA (free donut if you know what that spells out to)
Emergency In Service Refit Activity?????

Not even close. I'll take a few more guesses before I spell it out.

Dave

Extended Incremental Selected Restricted Availability.

Donut? Donut? =)'

_____________
José Herculano

Dave in San Diego wrote:
"_" wrote in :
Emergency In Service Refit Activity?????

Not even close. I'll take a few more guesses before I spell it out.

It's not in the 1970 edition of DICNAVAB, by the way.

--
John Miller
email domain: n4vu.com; username: jsm(@)